Is there anyway to generate power using only limb-based attacks(arm punches) without being very fit?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bullsherdog, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Bullsherdog

    Bullsherdog White Belt

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    We already know the cliché that boxers utilize the legs to generate most of their effectiveness in punching, martial artists use CoD PITT and mix in different moves in a single devastating combo to KO someone within seconds, big muscular thugs with no formal training using their brute strength and size to generate devastating power when they KO a nerd in one hit, etc.

    But I am wondering. In a case of what-if monkey suppose you aren't a strongman who can pull trucks for miles with a rope and you are in a situation preventing utilizing leg movements and other bodily movement preventing power generation as well as are unable to utilize the whole arsenal of moves such as knees while simultaneously headbutting with a quick follow up by bearhugging ala CoD PITT, etc.

    Is there a way to generate power just from purely limb based attacks such as throwing the generic "soccer kicks" without pivoting your standing leg and other subtleties while not being in tip top fighting shape? Fantasy scenario example you're a 90 pound nerd who gets tackled and pinned on a couch by a 200 pounder fat guy. He is so on top you the only blow you can throw are sloppy uppercuts on his body and because you're bot lying on the couch you cant utilize your shoulder and legs to generate full power. The space on the couch is so cramped that you can't use your legs for triangle chokes or bit the fatty on the neck, etc use CoD PITT principles.

    Is there anything you can do to generate enough force to hurt this guy with arm-based uppercuts so he'll get off you?

    Funny scenario but that couch incident should sum up what I mean by my question. I ask because RBSD discussion and dojo forums brings up so many bizarre scenarios that people are trying to find ways to survive. For example I seen one discussion where people were criticizing boxing because it relies on the legs so much for powers that should you get chained to a chair punches will be useless. Literally one guy said "that's why us boxers train with weights, pushups. and other hard strength exercises so that we still hit hard even if we can only rely on our arms."

    I was like "wut the hell...." but it made me curious if "limb-based" attacks such as simply bringing up knees without using gravitational force and utilizing your rear leg to spring upward for more power or throwing hooks without twisting your hips along with pivoting legs while lacking the muscles of Conan the Barbarian can still bring enough force to hurt your enemy enough so that you can escape.

    Is there anyway to generate power with just arms alone in punching, a single leg alone in kicking, headbutting without grabbing the other guy's rear neck towards you, etc in otherwords just using a single limb or body part to attack in singularity without being physically strong?

    Or is this one of those "Ragnarok" you're fucked up for sure scenarios? The argument about boxing being useless if you're legs are chained to a chair is just one and there are so many bizarre scenarios from five guys pinning you to a wall similar to the American History X rape scene to trying to fight with both arms and one leg in a casket.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Senior Master

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    Basically, your question comes down to this, if I'm reading it correctly: "If you can't use good technique and don't have excessive strength, is there a way to still generate similar power?"

    IMO, the answer is no - I'd be interested if anyone else here has an approach that can. If you remove all the things that generate power, you don't have power. Now, later in your post, you referred more to being able to hurt someone. That you can do without needing much power. A flat-hand slap to the ear hurts. A poke in the eye hurts. An open-hand slap to the ribs (especially if they're shirtless) hurts. Pressure points hurt. Finger locks (and subsequent breaks) hurt. So, we replace punching technique (and/or strength) with targeting and using different tactics.

    Now, is it possible you'd find a moment in that situation where you could use your body and the foundation under you to generate power? Yes, but it's unlikely, unless he makes a significant error. like giving you room to move your shoulders freely and maybe a bit of hip freedom, plus access to grab his shirt front (which he's now wearing - he politely put it on after you slapped his ribs) for leverage. And he's not punching you at that moment, so you have enough time to pull off an upward punch that has a bit of power.
     
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  3. O'Malley

    O'Malley Orange Belt

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    I bet that WSL VT can do that :smuggrin:
     
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  4. Kickboxer101

    Kickboxer101 Master Black Belt

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    No there's a reason the technique is there is because it works. Honestly what kind of tight space do you think you won't be able to use knees or turn your hips even if only slightly
     
  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    And all those "what-if" scenarios are quite stupid honestly, and are the hallmark of people who are not realistic, don't know much, and may simply be paranoid.

    And yes, there are situations in which you may simply be screwed, nothing you can do.

    I wouldn't lose sleep over any of it.
     
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  6. O'Malley

    O'Malley Orange Belt

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    More seriously...

    What is CoD PITT?

    The less you use your whole body movement/timing/gravity/mechanical advantage, the less power you'll be able to produce. It's the basis of martial arts and body movement in general and it's one of the goals of one's training (try to do a muscle up without using your whole body strength, you'll have a fun time haha). To stay on the topic of soccer kicks, soccer players can't shoot with much power if their movement is disturbed too much by the defender. So no, there isn't, to my meager knowledge.

    Honestly, those scenarios are largely fantasized and look more like keyboard jockeying than serious self defense thinking. It's like wondering what art can help you defeat a bunch of mafiosi while you've been thrown into the ocean with your legs tied to a rock and you're drowning. That amounts to taking away a lot of the "R" in "RBSD" and entering the realm of mental masturbation.

    TL;DR: Don't find yourself in such a situation, which is highly unlikely anyway.
     
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  7. kuniggety

    kuniggety Black Belt

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    There's this martial art that teaches you to fight/escape from the bottom position: BJJ. Show me this "pin" and I'll show you an escape. If your hands are free to be trying to strike them, then there's other things you can be doing with them such as creating frames which will allow hip movement.
     
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Senior Master

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    Precisely. There's a reason BJJ doesn't work on power strikes from the bottom.
     
  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Senior Master

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    First thing we need to do is clean up the this scenario. If you want real answer then never use a fantasy scenario.
    How about this version:
    A 90 pound woman gets pinned down on a couch by a man who significantly out weighs her. He is on top of her and the only strikes that she can throw are sloppy punches. The design of the couch makes it difficult to move.

    Your question shouldn't be about uppercuts. Here is what you need to ask.
    Is there anything you can do to generate enough force to hurt this guy so he'll get off you? For example, uppercuts

    Now you have 2 realistic topics. That can be realistically addressed.

    Answer to the uppercut question:
    Every technique has a specific time and specific scenario in which they will be effective. Trying to do uppercuts while being pinned to the ground will not work because it is not possible to use the body mechanics that are required for using uppercuts. It would be like asking, "Is there anyway that I can move on the land by using swimming techniques?" It's just the wrong technique for the wrong scenario.

    Ok if this comment came out of a student's mouth, then that student doesn't know what he's talking about. If the RBSD instructor said this then you need to leave the class.
    The answer to this is No, unless you are poking someone in the eye or grabbing genitals. Punches, kicks, and even headbutts utilize multiple body mechanics.
     
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  10. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    I'm not familiar with the CoD PITT term either. I assume it's an acronym of some sort? I tried to figure out what it might stand for but haven't got a clue.

    Standing up, striking power is generated from the whole body, starting with the legs.

    If you are pinned on the ground, that kind of striking power isn't available. This is where grappling arts such as BJJ come into play. BJJ uses the whole body for power, but applies it towards escaping a bad position and getting into a more favorable position for controlling the opponent. (There are ways to land an effective strike from the bottom on the ground, but you have to get into the right position to do it. Pinned on a couch by someone twice your size sitting on you is not that position.)
     
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  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    All power are generated from

    - bottom -> up
    - back -> front

    If your feet are not touching the ground, you can't general power.
     
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  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Senior Master

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    I'm pretty sure a lot of things will fail in this scenario of being pinned on a couch. Even this guy is just guessing. lol
     
  13. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    At least in scenario depicted the bottom guy has his attacker in his guard which is a major improvement over being mounted. Unfortunately he wastes that advantage by not using his legs, hips, and core to control his opponent. He's trying operate strictly with his arms which is a losing proposition.
     
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour Senior Master

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    Agreed. If the legs/hips are available (as in a guard) they should be deployed to help control. Heck, even in a mount (or more so?), those hip/core movements should be part of the solution.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Grandmaster

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    Yes. Have a brick in your hand.

     
  16. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    What if an elephant chases me down a jungle path armed with an AK-47?
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Grandmaster

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    An elephant has no thumbs. How could he shoot it?

    But yes this thread detracts from serious discussions like which kung fu is best.
     
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  18. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    If an elephant holds an AK-47 in its trunk and whacks you with it, you're going to be hurting. Doesn't even matter whether the gun is loaded.
     
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  19. KangTsai

    KangTsai Black Belt

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    Answer for that hypothetical situation: you don't - you'll die. Now you have to grapple. 90pd Nerd should have learned some guard techniques.
     
  20. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Master of Arts

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    Go train. All these questions you been asking can be answered through training. It is cheesy but...

    "The answer lies in the heart of battle."
     

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