Is Not Being Able to Retain Techniques Taught at First Normal?

[Hot Lunch]

I've trained two days so far. First day was techniques from the full guard, second was techniques from the half guard.

The day after that second class, I'm doing my damndest to remember what I've been taught, and doubt that I'd be able to execute them at my next class without the professor showing them to me again. Is this normal at first?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Absolutely. Going to be happening the first six months at least.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I've trained two days so far. First day was techniques from the full guard, second was techniques from the half guard.

The day after that second class, I'm doing my damndest to remember what I've been taught, and doubt that I'd be able to execute them at my next class without the professor showing them to me again. Is this normal at first?

Totally normal. Relax and enjoy the training. It will begin to sink in.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Yes. It is absolutely normal.

Your ability to retain the techniques you've been taught will improve significantly with time and experience, but there are methods you can use to speed up the process. I'll give you what I consider the most important method and the one I tell all my students.

Memorization is limited. In BJJ there are hundreds of techniques, with dozens of variations for each technique, and at least dozens of details for each variation. That comes out to thousands or tens of thousands of technical details. You can't memorize them all. I can't either. No can. Even if you could, people are constantly inventing new techniques and variations faster than you can keep up with.

The thing to do is to realize that all those tens of thousands of technical details are just contextual applications of a fairly small number of underlying concepts and principles and basic movement patterns. If you understand the purpose and the meaning and the underlying principle behind each detail, then it becomes much easier to remember. Think of it like a language if someone gives you a paragraph to memorize and recite in a language you don't speak, then it's just random sounds and will be really hard to remember. But if you understand the language, then you understand and retain the meaning. Even if you don't remember it word for word the next day, you'll probably be able to recite the gist of it.

So when you learn a new technique, try to identify as many as possible of the fundamental ideas that make it work. If you are lucky, the instructor will explain at least some of them in the process of demonstration. Another helpful approach is to ask "why" for each of the details you are shown. If the instructor doesn't explain, then try to see if you can figure it out on your own. If you can't, ask your instructor or see what happens when you leave out the detail. On your first day, maybe you can only identify and remember one or two of those ideas. That's fine.

Now when you go to your next class and the instructor shows an entirely different technique, do the same thing, but try to find one concept or movement or principle which you saw in the previous class in the other technique. Keep this up and in no time you'll start to recognize the basic building blocks that come together to make all these techniques and variations work. At that point, the process of remembering what you are taught becomes much, much easier.

Side note - once you start this process, eventually you will encounter a situation where you though you understood a fundamental principle and the instructor is showing you something which appears to contradict that. This is an excellent opportunity to start understanding the concepts beneath the concepts and why every "rule" is really just a guideline for the time being that you can break once you understand the concepts beneath it.

This is all a very abstract and general overview. Let me know if you would like some more concrete examples.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I've trained two days so far. First day was techniques from the full guard, second was techniques from the half guard.

Yes. It is absolutely normal.

Is it logical that a beginner should learn take down skill first before he starts to learn the ground skill? I would assume that in BJJ, one may learn "pull guard" or "jump guard" first.

Take down -> ground skill

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Is it logical that a beginner should learn take down skill first before he starts to learn the ground skill? I would assume that in BJJ, one may learn "pull guard" or "jump guard" first.

Take down -> ground skill

I teach takedowns from day one. I’m not a fan of guard pulling under most circumstances, although it has its place.

Some BJJ teachers do as I do. Some teach guard pulling first. Some teach takedowns and guard pulling as complementary skills. Some just spend most of their time teaching with the students already on the ground and only get around to covering takedowns or guard pulling when a tournament is approaching.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I teach takedowns from day one. I’m not a fan of guard pulling under most circumstances, although it has its place.

Some BJJ teachers do as I do. Some teach guard pulling first. Some teach takedowns and guard pulling as complementary skills. Some just spend most of their time teaching with the students already on the ground and only get around to covering takedowns or guard pulling when a tournament is approaching.

To clarify the above, I also teach groundfighting from day one. I try to keep a fairly even mix of standup and ground work, although I don’t always cover both in the same class.

 

[dunc]

I've trained two days so far. First day was techniques from the full guard, second was techniques from the half guard.

The day after that second class, I'm doing my damndest to remember what I've been taught, and doubt that I'd be able to execute them at my next class without the professor showing them to me again. Is this normal at first?

Yes it is
I think ground fighting is harder to tune into than stand up. It’s less intuitive and the principles (eg balance breaking) are harder to see / visualise
So it takes a bit of time and experience to get to the place where you can remember the techniques and apply them in sparring
My advice is to go to a good source for videos (Stephan Kesting is a good free source online) after class and review the techniques shown. Kesting also does a good job of explaining the overall system which will help you put things into place (from memory he refers to this as the hierarchy of positions or something like that). This will help you start to visualise what’s going on
Also my advice in free sparring is to take one or two basic techniques (eg get into closed/full guard and do one sub) and keep trying to get that down rather than spamming a lot of random techniques that you haven’t really learnt yet
Ideally you’ll find a training partner who can help you in this (FWIW whenever I spar with lower belts I always offer to help them work on something as it makes for a more interesting round) &/or make sure one of the techniques you’re working on is survival from the bottom (because that’s where you’ll spend most of your time initially)
Hope this helps

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've trained two days so far. First day was techniques from the full guard, second was techniques from the half guard.

The day after that second class, I'm doing my damndest to remember what I've been taught, and doubt that I'd be able to execute them at my next class without the professor showing them to me again. Is this normal at first?

It sure is. The way the brain learns, it needs to find good related material (as it sees it) to ground new memories in. The more complex the memory being created, the more foundation it needs. Since you're working in a new conceptual area, your brain is struggling to store the information in a meaningful way. As you build new conceptual foundations, subsequent techniques become easier to remember, understand, and learn.

This is why I encouraged students to keep a notebook (and to jot quick notes in it during class, at their discretion). It gives a trigger to help the brain dig up more of the information. Forced recall (making your brain come up with the information, rather than simply going over it again) is vital to learning (testing learned information actually improves recall and retention), so having some notes that prompt you as you drag those memories back together helps you learn faster.

(NOTE: This is a simplification and not entirely accurate, but covers the concept of memory/learning as I understand it.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is it logical that a beginner should learn take down skill first before he starts to learn the ground skill? I would assume that in BJJ, one may learn "pull guard" or "jump guard" first.

Take down -> ground skill

I would think this could be approached either way. Or, more correctly, any number of ways. I would tend to agree that starting with the takedown makes progressive sense. At the same time, there's no reason a student can't start by learning ground escapes (bridging, etc.), to get them used to movement before they deal with takedowns (which can more reasonably end with harder falls).

I think all that would really be important is that there's some useful progression involved, and not just jumping back and forth between areas of skill without a connection/foundation.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I've trained two days so far. First day was techniques from the full guard, second was techniques from the half guard.

The day after that second class, I'm doing my damndest to remember what I've been taught, and doubt that I'd be able to execute them at my next class without the professor showing them to me again. Is this normal at first?

If you're that impatient and frustrated by not being competent and retaining new physical concepts after two lessons, this may not be the sport for you. It takes months to mentally absorb the concepts and years to get the body to. Years more before you can reliably and effectively execute against a noncompliant opponent. Learn what you can, practice, review, practice, and enjoy the journey. Skill and understanding will come in its own time.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I would think this could be approached either way. Or, more correctly, any number of ways. I would tend to agree that starting with the takedown makes progressive sense.

The reason that I believe take down should be learned first because when you take your opponent down, your take down will flow smoothly into a mount.

For example, this takedown will give you a side mount for free. You then take advantage on this side mount, the ground game starts from there.

 

[drop bear]

The reason that I believe take down should be learned first because when you take your opponent down, your take down will flow smoothly into a mount.

For example, this takedown will give you a side mount for free. You then take advantage on this side mount, the ground game starts from there.

Throwing a person like that 20 times on their first day so the get it
Will be a really hard day.

 

[drop bear]

I've trained two days so far. First day was techniques from the full guard, second was techniques from the half guard.

The day after that second class, I'm doing my damndest to remember what I've been taught, and doubt that I'd be able to execute them at my next class without the professor showing them to me again. Is this normal at first?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Throwing a person like that 20 times on their first day so the get it
Will be a really hard day.

This is why I believe that SC and Judo will never be a popular MA style.

 

[Hot Lunch]

If you're that impatient and frustrated by not being competent and retaining new physical concepts after two lessons, this may not be the sport for you.

The only thing I don't have patience for is your lack of good reading comprehension and your condescending talk. Take that BS somewhere else.

 

[drop bear]

The only thing I don't have patience for is your lack of good reading comprehension and your condescending talk. Take that BS somewhere else.

By the way BJJ does has an extraordinary amount of frustration and suck attached to it.

So if you are used to systems that have you clearing the room full of bad guys in a week. It will feel like a hopeless exercise.

It could reasonably be months before you see any success with these techniques.

And then when you are getting success. Someone will come along and just crap on that with better athleticism or just get lucky or have one trick you can't figure out.

Untill eventually you finally are happy with your level of performance and then they turn around and grade you. So you have to start all over again as the most garbage coloured guy in the place.

And then you get old.

So he does kind of have a point.

 

[Hot Lunch]

By the way BJJ does has an extraordinary amount of frustration and suck attached to it.

Which I have not yet experienced, nor am I talking about. So why is he bringing it up?

So if you are used to systems that have you clearing the room full of bad guys in a week. It will feel like a hopeless exercise.

It could reasonably be months before you see any success with these techniques.

And then when you are getting success. Someone will come along and just crap on that with better athleticism or just get lucky or have one trick you can't figure out.

Untill eventually you finally are happy with your level of performance and then they turn around and grade you. So you have to start all over again as the most garbage coloured guy in the place.

And then you get old.

So he does kind of have a point.

If I was expressing any kind of negativity, then he would have a point. Asking if a particular thing is normal to see if one is on the right track is not negative. By suggesting that BJJ may not be for someone for asking whether or not learning things at the beginning was a challenge, he's looking for a fight to pick or someone to "own," and he's barking up the wrong tree.

 

[mograph]

Yes, it's quite normal. This kind of learning is called "implicit learning," sometimes with the word "skills" or 'motor" added. It's a very different process from "explicit" learning, which is the learning of facts.

It's the same with learning a sport, developing a manual skill, or learning a musical instrument.

Totally normal. Relax and enjoy the training. It will begin to sink in.

Absolutely.

 

[Instructor]

Learning fundamentals in any martial art takes time and patience, mastering them takes a lifetime, your experience is completely normal.