Head pressure - good, bad, or gray area?

[skribs]

The other day in class, my opponent - a larger, no-stripe white belt - gets in mount, and proceeds to grab my head, lay his belly on my face, and squeeze as hard as he can while putting as much pressure as he could. Wasn't seeking anything else, just laying on and squeezing my head.

I tapped. I talked to my professor, he said "white belts will do that, just tap."

Is this something that is a legit move that I will need to figure out how to get out of? An illegal move I'm not aware of? Or is it a gray area, one of those "jerk moves" that you don't normally do in civilized rolls, but some folks do anyway?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Typically, I'll just deal with it until they get tired. To my knowledge, it's not something that you'll actually need to tap to, or determine an escape, though I definitely would not blame someone for tapping.

 

[skribs]

Typically, I'll just deal with it until they get tired. To my knowledge, it's not something that you'll actually need to tap to, or determine an escape, though I definitely would not blame someone for tapping.

I know it's not entirely realistic, but I've seen The Mountain vs. The Viper fight in Game of Thrones.

 

[drop bear]

Mothers milk.

Real submission.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Head squeeze in ground game is very effective if you have powerful head lock.

1. neck.
2. jaw area.
3. temple.

IMO, 1 < 2 < 3

 

[skribs]

Mothers milk.

Real submission.

Not even that. My mouth was free. He was squeezing my cranium.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Is this something that is a legit move that I will need to figure out how to get out of? An illegal move I'm not aware of? Or is it a gray area, one of those "jerk moves" that you don't normally do in civilized rolls, but some folks do anyway?

Strange question. Someone is attacking you with something, Why wouldn't you want to know how to deal with it? It doesn't matter if it's illegal or not.

EDIT: Something to think about. Groin Kicks are illegal and harmful, Because of that I learn to get in a stance that reduce the possibility that I'll get kicked in the groin. I wear a cup,

If someone's strategy is to squeeze your head to make it hurt, then you need to have an answer for it. Even if it doesn't hurt you, then you need figure out a way to deal with it. If you have no answer for it, then that's how someone will beat you.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Is this something that is a legit move that I will need to figure out how to get out of? An illegal move I'm not aware of? Or is it a gray area, one of those "jerk moves" that you don't normally do in civilized rolls, but some folks do anyway?

It's a legal but pointless move. There's no real danger of injury and it doesn't encourage you to move in a particular direction which is helpful for him, so he's just wasting his strength. As a beginner it might be uncomfortable, but you'll reach the point where it's just a mild annoyance at worse.

You don't need to worry about developing a specific counter for it, because the fact that he's wasting his energy on something that doesn't really threaten you means that you can pay more attention to just working to escape the mount. However, you do need to pay attention in case he switches off to trying something that actually is a threat, such as a choke, neck crank, or suffocation.

 

[drop bear]

It's a legal but pointless move. There's no real danger of injury and it doesn't encourage you to move in a particular direction which is helpful for him, so he's just wasting his strength. As a beginner it might be uncomfortable, but you'll reach the point where it's just a mild annoyance at worse.

You don't need to worry about developing a specific counter for it, because the fact that he's wasting his energy on something that doesn't really threaten you means that you can pay more attention to just working to escape the mount. However, you do need to pay attention in case he switches off to trying something that actually is a threat, such as a choke, neck crank, or suffocation.

The counter is knuckle grind his ribs.

Skribs.
There is a mount escape where you hip bump and just bench press him off you, bring your knees in and then butterfly sweep him.


Which you could do from high hips via a knuckle grind. And him throwing all his weight at your head.

 

[skribs]

just bench press him off you

This guy is bigger than me, and upper body strength is not my strong suit.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This guy is bigger than me, and upper body strength is not my strong suit.

Solution 1 - Do you have 1 free arm. Can you use your free hand to press his forehead (above eyebrow) to make his head to bend backward?

Solution 2 - Do you have 2 free arms. Can you use your hands to twist his head (1 hand on his forehead, 1 hand on his chin)?

I assume your arm strength should be stronger than his neck muscle.

If your opponent turns his head away from you, you may try "fish hook" by pulling his mouth from the other side of his face (make sure your opponent doesn't bite on your fingers).

 

[drop bear]

This guy is bigger than me, and upper body strength is not my strong suit.

It's mostly a hip up.

 

[dunc]

Solution 1 - Do you have 1 free arm. Can you use your free hand to press his forehead (above eyebrow) to make his head to bend backward?

Solution 2 - Do you have 2 free arms. Can you use your hands to twist his head (1 hand on his forehead, 1 hand on his chin)?

I assume your arm strength should be stronger than his neck muscle.

If your opponent turns his head away from you, you may try "fish hook" by pulling his mouth from the other side of his face (make sure your opponent doesn't bite on your fingers).

Unfortunately this is not a good option if you’re being held in mount - against anyone with a little knowledge you’ll likely expose your arms and end up in a worse position

In my experience squeezing the head from mount doesn’t really achieve anything. Actually if you can bear the pressure (which will come with experience) then you can use the time to start working your legs to escape and ultimately they are burning more energy than you

The main risk is that they hold your head in such a way that you’re being suffocated. So you need to defend against this

In terms of dirty tricks for a self defence scenario (not in the academy) skin grips as part of your framing technique will help create space

 

[JowGaWolf]

Unfortunately this is not a good option if you’re being held in mount - against anyone with a little knowledge you’ll likely expose your arms and end up in a worse position

In my experience squeezing the head from mount doesn’t really achieve anything. Actually if you can bear the pressure (which will come with experience) then you can use the time to start working your legs to escape and ultimately they are burning more energy than you

The main risk is that they hold your head in such a way that you’re being suffocated. So you need to defend against this

In terms of dirty tricks for a self defence scenario (not in the academy) skin grips as part of your framing technique will help create space

I like this type of discussion on how to deal with something vs just letting it slide. One of the things that I started to train this year is squeezing. The grip training is down pat but the other type of full body squeezing is in the works. I'm trying to find the most effective and efficient way to squeeze the body.

 

[dunc]

I like this type of discussion on how to deal with something vs just letting it slide. One of the things that I started to train this year is squeezing. The grip training is down pat but the other type of full body squeezing is in the works. I'm trying to find the most effective and efficient way to squeeze the body.

Not sure what you mean by squeezing
You you mean dojime (ie using your legs to squeeze the torso) or generally closing space with your grips?

 

[Ivan]

The other day in class, my opponent - a larger, no-stripe white belt - gets in mount, and proceeds to grab my head, lay his belly on my face, and squeeze as hard as he can while putting as much pressure as he could. Wasn't seeking anything else, just laying on and squeezing my head.

I tapped. I talked to my professor, he said "white belts will do that, just tap."

Is this something that is a legit move that I will need to figure out how to get out of? An illegal move I'm not aware of? Or is it a gray area, one of those "jerk moves" that you don't normally do in civilized rolls, but some folks do anyway?

This seems like a move that is purely made to cause discomfort. Your best bet is to use the fact that he is using his arms for this, and has no posts. Bridge and bump to reverse the position, and work your closed guard escapes. The most difficult part of jiujitsu for us beginners is learning to cope with discomfort. So long as you are not in any immediate danger, you should be able to cope with the discomfort and focus on improving your position.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This kind of thing could cause me to react in a not nice way after the fact. I don’t leave these kind of debts unpaid. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I had a blue belt abuse me a little over a year ago. His ground game was better than mine. He is quite a bit larger than me. His stand up is, however, not very good. These things can turn out poorly if people don’t respect their sparring/rolling partner. Respect gets respect.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not sure what you mean by squeezing
You you mean dojime (ie using your legs to squeeze the torso) or generally closing space with your grips?

all of it. From using the grip to squeeze, arms to squeeze, and legs to squeeze..

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This kind of thing could cause me to react in a not nice way after the fact. I don’t leave these kind of debts unpaid. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I had a blue belt abuse me a little over a year ago. His ground game was better than mine. He is quite a bit larger than me. His stand up is, however, not very good. These things can turn out poorly if people don’t respect their sparring/rolling partner. Respect gets respect.

There is a very good chance the no-stripe white belt literally does not know better at this point in his training. He is not playing a stupid game, he is trying to get a submission, without knowing how to do so.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

There is a very good chance the no-stripe white belt literally does not know better at this point in his training. He is not playing a stupid game, he is trying to get a submission, without knowing how to do so.

I would have certainly communicated that to them in real time. It seems to me that an instructor should be supervising white belts during a session so as to mitigate this sort of thing. A lot of mma gyms around here have a dog eat dog type of culture. It reminds me of old times where if you were new they would just feed you to the more accomplished students. I can swim that water but it brings out the worst in me.