How to toughen up?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Faith, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I agree with you, its vital IMO, for technique and posture.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,090
    Likes Received:
    6,837
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Not really related to the OP's question, John.
     
  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,090
    Likes Received:
    6,837
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    This. All 3 parts. This is how I train students to get past the common flinch and other reactions (with the small exception that they learn some light evasion while they're learning to work in the pocket, so they don't freeze in there).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,090
    Likes Received:
    6,837
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Great explanation of the process, DB.
     
  5. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,288
    Likes Received:
    2,087
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    If you think you are tough like a tiger, when a deer attack a tiger, that tiger will not turn it's head away. To develop that tiger spirit, you need to be super strong.

    If you are a hammer, everybody will look like a nail to you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    yes, i think you have succinctly and poetically summed up the psychological aspects of being '' tough''
     
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,288
    Likes Received:
    2,087
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    - "Tough" is you have courage to face a problem and not running away from it.
    - "Flinch" is not willing to face a punch and you run away from that punch.

    It's better to

    - train take down skill then to train counter to take down skill.
    - let your opponent to "flinch" your punch than to let you to "flinch" your opponent's punch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  8. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    So my normal advice would be to just get some more exposure with sparring, and that you'll get used to it. But considering the length of time, I don't think that'll work. I can think of three things to help.

    1) visit a school that does more and/or harder training sessions, and train there for a few months.

    2) spar with someone and (preferably with light contact) just exchange hits. Have them try to overwhelm you. It'll take a while, and will suck, but eventually you'll get used to it.

    3) stand against a wall and have someone spend five minutes just throwing punch after punch at you (but not actually hitting you). A lot of the flinch is just the motion/speed, so if you can get used to that the flinching might decrease.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    flinching is a learnt response in people who are used to getting hit, getting hit some more isn't the solution
     
  10. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    Personally I've found the opposite-when people are used to being hit (lightly), and defending themselves the flinching stops. It's when people are hit too hard and/or abused that flinching becomes the reaction. Or, in most cases from my experience, in people who don't get hit a lot and have this fear of it being much worse than it is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    Missed this post originally, just saw you beat me to it
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,178
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Flinching is a natural response that offers some protection. A twig flicks at your eyes, you instinctively blink hard and the reaction may save your vision. A unexpected blow comes your way and you instinctively throw your hands up and duck. The reaction avoids or blunts the impact. Unfortunately, this kind of response unchecked can be very detrimental in many activities such as baseball, football/soccer, ...and of course, the martial arts. But rather than totally suppressing the flinch reaction, a good start is learning to re-program it into a productive response. Like proper head movement and covering or counterpunching. Then as you gain success and confidence, you can also reduce the unproductive exaggerated flinch response and gradually replace it with a productive fighting response.

    Learning to re-program or re-direct the flinch productively will gain quicker results, IMO, than mere suppression -i.e. just taking hits and trying to "learn not to flinch".
     
  13. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    people who have never been hit dont flinch, why would they ?

    ok i had a rescue dog a good few years ago, that flinched every time i move my hand in his rough direction,

    did i a) keep hitting him in the some what mistaken belief that he would get used to it and stop flinching
    b) convince him my hand was not going to cause pain by not hitting him

    clue it was B) though i did get bit quite a lot, i just convinced my self it didn't hurt and all was well after about 6 months
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    flinching is the exact opposite of a proactive reaction, you cant flinch and duck at the same time, as all your muscles tighten
     
  15. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,178
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Yeah, everybody has a certain degree of an innate "flinch" reaction, but what you so accurately point out referencing your dog is how bad experiences and abuse can instill greatly exaggerated flinch responses.

    One hard wired flinch response is the blink when something pokes at your eyes, another is throwing up your hands when something suddenly and unexpectedly pops out at you, another is when one hand touches something hot and gets burned, people will involuntarily push out with the other ...and of course, as you say, tensing up which makes purposeful head movement (like in boxing) impossible.

    But tensing and ducking (crouching down) do happen together ...as does ultimately curling up into a fetal position. Honestly, Jobo, I don't think we disagree here... Because flinching is reactive, it will be opposite to a proactive response. True enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    i don't think they have, move your hand quickly near a child or a dog that never been hit, they don't flinch, do it near one that been on the wrong end of a few good hiddings and they certainly do.

    you could argue that its part of the flight, fight or freeze response, but if your not viewing it as a danger then a fear response is unlikely to occur and how do you learn that a fast moving hand is dangerous , ?
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    no if you can duck or otherwise have control of your movements your not flinching (or if you are doing both, ducking wasnt a decision), which is extreme tension, you may be able to get into a fetal position, but not quickly
     
  18. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,288
    Likes Received:
    2,087
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    If you are good in your kick, when you see a punch coming toward your face, you can already see that your kick will land on your opponent's belly. If you see your opponent's punch is an opportunity, you will open your eyes big and also have a big smile on your face.

    To have faith in your own MA skill and know how to take advantage on your opponent's punch is the key issue.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  19. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    People do flinch when they've never been hit, if they think they'll be about to be hit. Happens all the time.

    But a large reaction like what you're describing, where a motion towards the person or animal makes them think they're about to be hit is an entirely different situation. My advice wasn't for someone dealing with abuse/ptsd, but nothing in the OP suggested that was the case here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK

    HAPPENS ALL THE TIME

    lets examine that claim then

    tell me all about ALL these people who have not previously been hit who flinched with you as a witness, don't forget to tell me how you establish they had never previously been hit

    i didn't say he had been abused, i said he had previously been hit and your advice was to carry on being hit as if will magically cure the problem123
     

Share This Page