groin strike effectiveness

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by lonecoyote, Sep 16, 2004.

  1. lonecoyote

    lonecoyote Brown Belt

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    I have read various posts on this board and others by people who say that they have firsthand experience of hard groin strikes not working. Even people who say they have gone on and won street fights, after taking a hard groin strike. Cobra even started a thread about taking a groin shot on purpose. I have taken a few really hard accidental kicks in the groin in the dojo and given a couple too, and while I understand it might not end a fight, as part of a combination it would definitely have an effect. Thing about it to me is not just the initial pain, but the really heavy feeling in the legs, like someone has poured molten lead in them, and also the loss of wind, making you feel out of gas. What causes this? anyway, strikes to the groin are definitely part of my emergency arsenal. Does anyone out there not believe groin strikes are effective? Why or why not? How about effective in combinations of other techniques?
     
  2. Kane

    Kane Black Belt

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    It is effective to a certain extent. It might somehow depend on an individual. For me, groin strikes hurt for a little while but they never paralyze me. I can get over them rather quickly but it is very painful none matter what to be hit there.

    I would say squeezing the groin is more effective than hitting the groin. If you sqeeze the groin long enough you can very much subdue the attacker enough for an escape.
     
  3. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    The way that I look at it, a groin strike shouldn't be looked at as an ender, rather, as a door opener. You go high, he's covered, switch to low, groin strike, arms drop. Or whatever. Use it to gain that split second where his mind is on the boys, and keep working.
     
  4. bignick

    bignick Senior Master

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    I posted this in another thread and thought i would restate it

    this info comes straight from my jujutsu instructor, who has a masters degree and teaches anatomy and physiology...."crush the testicles...they'll be in shock in less than a second...and without treatment they'll most likely die of shock"
     
  5. Thesemindz

    Thesemindz Senior Master

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    I used to doubt the validity of people claiming they were unaffected by the pain of a groin strike. In fact, I knew of a TKD practioner who was telling people that at his school they trained to ignore the pain, which always made me wonder exactly what such training could consist of, and tempted me to ask if I could test his claims. However, after training for several years and getting hit many times, I would say that while it's still incredibly painful, I can often ignore the pain and continue what I'm doing. For instance, I've been hit while teaching classes and continued teaching without reacting to the pain so that the student wouldn't feel self conscious. I've also been hit while training in street clothes and just shrugged it off. It's not that it didn't hurt. It hurt. I just put it aside and continued with what I was doing. Of course I think this also has to do with the degree of force applied. The soft kill hurts, but I think we can generally ignore it if we try. If someone were to grab, squeeze, and twist? I think I'd probably pray that I passed out before I died.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging by any stretch, and in fact, I'm still irritated by the guys who act like they could take a sledge to the stones and smile, but I think that with proper focus you can keep it from stopping you. None the less, you still notice it, and that distraction might be enough to create an additional opening. I still train and use groin strikes, but I feel that I'm more aware of their potential now. To me, this is similar to eye strikes. I used to think these were devestating, but I've been hit in the eye many times and continued fighting, even if I had to close one or both eyes. I saw one of our instructors take a finger two inches into the eye on accident, and he was able to shrug it off because it slid around the eye and didn't cause any damage to the eye itself. Again, I'll poke a person in the eye, but I don't put all my money on that strike winning the fight.


    -Rob
     
  6. Disco

    Disco Guest

    Well, I guess that the UFC fight I watched last night was flawed. Two totally in shape, hard core fighters, wearing protection and one of the guys took a low kick to the groin and could not continue. Ref called time and he was given enough time to recover. I've said this before on other threads that had a tie in to this same subject and I'll say it again now.... A good groin shot will stop people dead in their tracks. Can some recover faster than other's? Of course, were all not equal. But as pointed out, it opens the door for additional strikes to those that do recover faster. In all my years, I have never seen anybody get hit in the groin and be able to recover fast enough to protect themselves from further onslaught. If trained fighters wearing protecting can't continue after being struck, the average person in the street is no match for it then.
     
  7. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    My brother-in-law has been a bouncer for years and has a rather silly number of scars to show for it.

    During one altercation he was struck with a full-on knee to the groin, he finished his fight, and said he didn't really feel the pain until he was driving home later. As a result of that hit, he can't have kids, the internal damage to his testicles caused scarring, but it didn't stop him, or even really slow him down.

    One kenpo instructor related a story about striking a man in the groin and he didn't even slow down, so he bailed out of the situation. Later that night the "other guy" went into shock and was taken to the hospital. Sure it stopped him, about an hour after it would have mattered....

    I don't count on the groin kick, people are tough.

    Lamont
     
  8. TChase

    TChase Green Belt

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    I think it all depends on the intent of your attack. In the Kenpo I study we don't rely on pain compliance. Pain is a mindset. No two people feel pain the same way. And in reality when you factor in all the variables such as drugs, alcohol, adrenalin, mental condition, physical conditioning, and even different types of clothing, the success rate of pain compliance drops considerably.

    I don't want the success of my attack to depend on my enemies mindset. I want it to depend on involuntary mechanical reactions that I specifically cause. Which then leads to me dominating the enemies space. The pain caused is just a bonus.
     
  9. SenseiBear

    SenseiBear Blue Belt

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    Some people they work well on, others, not so well. Some are debilitating, some are not. If you are used to taking contact, and groin shots in particular, there is a lower chance of a groin strike being debilitating. There were a few years where it seemed I couldn't get through a class without getting hit/kicked in the groin... rarely do they slow me much anymore - however, whether a blow makes contact or not, I still jerk and try to cover, as most men do... so as an opener of targets, it is still effective.

    Train without a cup. It makes you more careful. If someone asks "are you wearing a cup?", they are really asking, "can I hit you in the groin, hard?
     
  10. Paul Genge

    Paul Genge Green Belt

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    In my experience attacking the groin can be effective, but there are a lot of variables that can affect weither it works or not. I have seen people with a positive mind set and a little alchohol shrug off kicks to the groin and continue to fight.

    Also there is the flinch reflex that all boys develop from the first occassion that one of their school mates find it funny to kick them in the nuts. Most of have unfortunately been there and know that the body takes particular care to protect that area by either getting it out of the way or by covering up using the thighs.

    Clothing is another factor that can literaly get in the way of attacking the groin. Tight fitting underwear and tight denim jeans can make your opponents nuts the most difficult thing to get hold of, if your are of a mind to do so.

    The one thing you can rely on is that subconciously no man likes the idea of being kicked in the groin. One tactic that is very reliable against a committed attack is to kick honestly at the groin as they come towards you. It really is a win / win situation. If you hit them in the groin you will cause them to either double because their hips have been knocked backwards or with pain If you do not hit them it will be because of some instinctual reaction on their part.

    When this happens often the groin trys to stop coming forward, but the momentum of the rest of the body continues in that direction. They then end up bent over at the waist. Some people will try to cross their legs causing them to trip themselves up or to contort into a disadvantaged position. I have not yet seen some one try to block the kick aside. The reason for this is probably because their mind does not have time to react that way. Also if you time it right the attack should have reached a point where is is committed. The skill is really in recognising the openings that this tactic creates and them using them.

    Paul Gengehttp://www.russianmartialart.org.uk
     
  11. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree with this statement! I'm not a fan of the 1 shot 1 kill mentality. Why stop with just 1 shot?? Instead, like Flatlander said, use it as an opener to other things.

    Disco was talking about the UFC. I agree with his comment as well. You see it all the time in the UFC and in boxing. Keep in mind that it does not have to be the ender, but if it at least gives the person something else to think about, again, it opens the door for a ton of other things.

    Mike
     
  12. Kenpodoc

    Kenpodoc 2nd Black Belt

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    Not True. They won't die, but they might wish they had. Adrenalin is an amazing drug. In a combat state of mind people don't notice injuries that would normally disable. The only sure instant stopper is cutting off circulation to the brain. A lot of guys act like their brains are in their pants but its not true. :asian:

    Jeff
     
  13. bignick

    bignick Senior Master

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    actually if you read back you'll see another post where someone that was hit in the groin went into shock...if you go into shock and aren't treated...there's a good chance you could die
     
  14. lonecoyote

    lonecoyote Brown Belt

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    I couldn't agree more that it shouldn't be the only shot, one shot one kill, but part of a combination of shots. I knew the talk would turn to adrenaline and its effects on blocking pain. What I've noticed, entirely apart from the pain response is that a really good hard shot to the groin has other effects besides pain, like the heavy legged feeling and the loss of wind. It slows you, might not stop you but it slows you. I'm sure adrenaline will mitigate these effects as well to some degree. I don't want to start something here, but adrenalin doesn't make you superman. I could break your collarbone with a roofing hammer and adrenalin might mask pain to an extent and keep you going, but after a certain point you will be too damaged to continue no matter how much you have flowing in your veins. Paul Genge's thoughts are incredibly insightful and amazing, as always.
     
  15. lonecoyote

    lonecoyote Brown Belt

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    And be careful not to run into the guy from the Steve Martin movie "The Jerk" I believe his name was Iron B--ls McGinty.
     
  16. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

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    Groin strikes have been know to kill people from shock.

    A well placed groin strike will slow most people down.

    Some people may be able to take one and fight on, that may be because of adreniline or a shot not on target, but I think most will feel the effects.
     
  17. AnimEdge

    AnimEdge Guest

    if you get in 2 good shots there puke :p
    nice combo: groin shot, hit to throat to make it swell, hit to groin again causing them to puke and drown them self :p learned that in ninujutsu :p
     
  18. Rick Wade

    Rick Wade Master Black Belt

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    I agree that groin shots are not a fight ender. I use groin shots to dispace the the hip and control the opponents hight, creating a moment of shock and then I can execute the rest of what I want to do.

    V/R
    Rick
     
  19. Kenpodoc

    Kenpodoc 2nd Black Belt

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    Shock is a word often used non medically. The chances of death from a groin shot are very low. This kind of misinformation is bad for martial arts. I believe that this is an "urban" myth. People seem to know someone who knew someone to whom this happened.

    Jeff MD
     
  20. bignick

    bignick Senior Master

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    My information comes from my instructor who has master's degree and teaches physiology and anatomy. It wasn't an "urban legend".

    I realize you're a doctor and i respect your knowledge on the matter at hand.123
     

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