Good teaching clip

[guy b]

you have no time to launch the right

Why is that?

 

[Juany118]

You three jumped on the thread and strated trolling. If you don't use man wu then why are you even here? Conversation was going fine without you.

---So now trying to participate and make sense out of one of your technical discussions....at your invitation....is considered "trolling"???


how about leaving the thread to people who actually might be interested instead?

---That's probably the best thing you've written in a LONG time. Although, I can't see why anyone would be interested in these long convoluted discussions with you two that always seem to go nowhere except down the rabbit hole.

Thing is I actually am interested, the thing is I was never taught that being interested meant that one can't look at things critically and voice an observation/opinion. No one here has said "WSLVT is inferior.". People have pointed out differences from other Lineages, have made simple observations of a video, have asked questions and then given opinions and alternatives to a singular methodology etc. Conversations like that only happen when people are interested

 

[guy b]

I don't really care. If your method is based on contemplating riddles and hypothetical scenarios, I don't want anything to do with it.

What a drama queen. If you are intersted then try listening. If not interested then simply stop worrying about it.

 

[guy b]

Thing is I actually am interested, the thing is I was never taught that being interested meant that one can't look at things critically and voice an observation/opinion

There is a huge difference between asking questions and being open to answers, and being on a strange one sided mission against a particular approach over several threads. Hard to see why you would join the forum and immediately start doing this. Also difficult to believe your claims about learning the WSL method when this particular topic should have been one of the first things you learned.

It just doesn't ring true I'm afraid. If you are interested then it is up to you to show it.

 

[Nobody Important]

For WT hands on centre this is the case



That's why not to do as WT does



It's right here on the thread. Maybe try listening instead of talking?

Where is your wu hand?

We've already discussed how I don't use Man Sau-Wu Sau. I agreed with LFJ on his deduction that this method gets you hit. In that exact scenario, if using Man Sau-Wu Sau, my suggestion was brace for the hit, no stopping it. However, it still doesn't solve how WSLPB VT would defend it from that position. How would you if you were in the exact scenario using Man Sau-Wu Sau as described?

 

[guy b]

How would you respond if you were in that exact scenario using Man Sau-Wu Sau as described? That's the question you've been ignoring.

We don't use it as described, that is why the situation was framed to show the problems with using as described.

 

[Nobody Important]

What a drama queen. If you are intersted then try listening. If not interested then simply stop worrying about it.

You're the one arguing and not listening. LFJ and I came to an agreement, at least I did with him. I'm not looking for vindication or anything. You are the one arguing my conclusion to the hypothetical situation that was given. It's get hit, my response, take it. It cant be avoided. I'm throwing the question back to you. Answer or don't.

 

[Nobody Important]

We don't use it as described, that is why the situation was framed to show the problems with using as described.

I agree, but you've been arguing with me on the premise that I was using that and if I were the answer is cover, cause you're going to get hit. If you were to be in the exact scenario using Man Sau -Wu Sau what is the response?

 

[guy b]

you've been arguing with me on the premise that I was using that and if I were the answer is cover,

It took you pages and pages to realise that it was a situation for Geezer. Since you don't hold your hands that way then no reason to even be in the discussion. Not sure why still here?

 

[Nobody Important]

It took you pages and pages to realise that it was a situation for Geezer. Since you don't hold your hands that way then no reason to even be in the discussion. Not sure why still here?

Whatever, thanks.

 

[Juany118]

Whatever, thanks.

What's kinda frustrating is that it is still applicable, here is the line of logic...

1. Geezer was talking about using man sau-wu sau for wedging actions but the wu sau positions were different.
>>>>
2. In response to Geezer's mention of wu sau placement the scenario we have been discussing was raised.
>>>>
3. A potential weakness in trying to address that particular scenario via the proposed method and hand position was then raised and an alternative method was proposed.

This is how any conversation naturally evolves.

So it really boils down to this. One can engage in constructive debate even if there is disagreement. With that in mind if you are on a Public forum and don't want others to chime in, so long as they are being constructive and actually putting forth ideas and not simply trolling, the solution is to take the conversation to private messages.

 

[KPM]

Whatever, thanks.

What's the old saying about arguing with an idiot?

 

[LFJ]

I don't need to "sit on" anything. You are not my teacher. Just give direct responses.

It's your teacher's job to give you answers. I'm not your teacher if you come to it yourself.

In Pin Sun we don't use an extended "ready position" like that. I was just trying to participate in the parameters of YOUR scenario. But it seems you keep changing it to suit yourself.

The scenario is extremely simple and has not once changed. I don't know why you want to participate if you don't even use the center guard.

It seems the original scenario that started the discussion in this direction keeps changing. Looks like LFJ designed a scenario that had no good answer and then you both sit back and laugh at people that try to give an answer, all the while not saying what you would do yourself. But the answer to that question seems to be..."don't be in that situation to begin with!" Which is a horribly disingenuous way to drive a discussion!

Again, the scenario has not once changed. Not a single thing about it has changed. The problem it highlights is with the center guard.

If you don't do the center guard, no need to even put yourself in that scenario and then complain about being in that scenario.

---So now trying to participate and make sense out of one of your technical discussions....at your invitation....is considered "trolling"???

You invited yourself and put yourself into a scenario you'd never be in, apparently.

The past dozen pages could be deleted, because it is just people trying to navigate through a scenario with a guard they don't even use.

I was talking to Geezer about the center guard and wedging principle of WT. Other YM lineages also seem to use the center guard. So, they could perhaps chime in. But I don't know why you mainland guys are even here.

I don't mind you participating. It's just very strange that you'd want to and has led nowhere.

 

[guy b]

LFJ is correct. The last 12 pages or so could be deleted because they consist of nothing more than NI, KPM and Juany getting the wrong end of the stick, arguing with anything and everything, concluding (very slowly) that the situation doesn't apply to their mainland crab guard, and then stomping off in the huff.

Very odd behaviour.

 

[KPM]

Yes, certainly the last 12 pages could be deleted. Because they consisted of you outlining a scenario, other people trying to take part by describing what they would do in such a scenario, you essentially laughing at them and telling them how wrong they are, and you yourself never stating what you would do in the same scenario. In the SNT thread Guy asked us several times to participate in THIS thread, so yeah, we were invited. And I will point out that in that SNT thread neither of you ever defined the "little idea" behind the WSLVT SNT in any kind of detail. So once again you two have proven how futile it is to try and carry on any kind of technical discussion with you. "Stomping off in a huff"??? No...more like "shaking my head, throwing up my hands and saying 'should have known better than to even try!'"

 

[LFJ]

you outlining a scenario, other people trying to take part by describing what they would do in such a scenario, you essentially laughing at them and telling them how wrong they are, and you yourself never stating what you would do in the same scenario.

Neither you nor I do WT or use a center guard, so why should either of us try to figure out a solution to a scenario we'd never be in?

In the SNT thread Guy asked us several times to participate in THIS thread, so yeah, we were invited.

To discuss the teaching clips when they were still the topic, not to pretend to be a WT practitioner.

 

[wtxs]

What's the old saying about arguing with an idiot?

It goes like this ... you will never win an argument with an idiot, cause they will bet you ever time with their twisted sense of logic.

 

[Juany118]

LFJ is correct. The last 12 pages or so could be deleted because they consist of nothing more than NI, KPM and Juany getting the wrong end of the stick, arguing with anything and everything, concluding (very slowly) that the situation doesn't apply to their mainland crab guard, and then stomping off in the huff.

Very odd behaviour.

I believe that "to get the wrong end of the stick" an actual substantive response needs to be delivered. The responses we have gotten have amounted to "WSLVT is superior and you are wrong."

If you had studied the system, you would know these basics. So either you aren't telling the truth or somehow you missed the fundamentals. Confusing.

I do understand the basics you speak of. In this thread I haven't made any comment saying "this is what WSLVT does." First I simply compared two videos, WSL himself and a video of a student of PB. Next I stated that, in the specific proposed scenario (not in a global sense) I believe there are methods that exist in other WC Lineages that have a higher like good of success.

It seems that, in your mind, having knowledge of WSLVT by definition means that one must also believe in its inherent superiority thus if someone doesn't recognize the superiority one must have no knowledge. That kind of circular logic is the essence of most of the arguments, and I use that term loosely, that you make.

 

[LFJ]

I believe that "to get the wrong end of the stick" an actual substantive response needs to be delivered. The responses we have gotten have amounted to "WSLVT is superior and you are wrong."

Answer to what?

The discussion was only about illustrating the failure of the WT center guard and wedging principle.

I never asked anyone else what they would do in this scenario, and I never said anything about WSLVT being superior.

I do understand the basics you speak of...

...It seems that, in your mind, having knowledge of WSLVT by definition means that one must also believe in its inherent superiority thus if someone doesn't recognize the superiority one must have no knowledge.

You say you understand the basics, but by your posting, you clearly don't. It has nothing to do with your opinion of the lineage.

You have simply never posted anything suggesting the faintest knowledge of WSLVT basics.

 

[guy b]

I do understand the basics you speak of. In this thread I haven't made any comment saying "this is what WSLVT does." First I simply compared two videos, WSL himself and a video of a student of PB. Next I stated that, in the specific proposed scenario (not in a global sense) I believe there are methods that exist in other WC Lineages that have a higher like good of success.

The thread has moved on from the initial clips. If you have a point to make about the WT hand position discussion then go ahead.

It seems that, in your mind, having knowledge of WSLVT by definition means that one must also believe in its inherent superiority thus if someone doesn't recognize the superiority one must have no knowledge.

I'm not really interested in participating in your mission to expose the truth about WSL VT. If you want to talk about it then that's fine. If not then please don't.

That kind of circular logic is the essence of most of the arguments, and I use that term loosely, that you make.

sigh