Does the advice people give kids being bullied to simply punch them in the face actually end it?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Chrisinmd, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,798
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Here Is Why We Need To Talk About Bullying In The Work Place
    Totally agree that it’s workplace bullying. I’m not nearly as confident as you that it leads so directly to termination of employment. In fact, I’m pretty confident it is pervasive and often without any significant consequence.

    I would also guess, though this is just speculation, that bullying is less likely to occur in a place with just a few employees. I would think it’s far more common in a large organization.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    I am a youth mentor at our church. I have counselled some girls but mostly young men. I will meet with kids at the parents request but my gig is to be a person that kids will come to on their own. I hear the "you don't understand" line quite often so I try to get them to explain what I don't understand. Say it out loud. This is usually a good medium to help them understand the mountain they think is in front of them is more of a hill, or at least has multiple paths to get over. People for the most part are much more resilient than they think and need some direction or motivation. Helping people understand that the easy path is usually not very rewarding is huge.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    I disagree. What I heard is encouraging kids interact with others. Even the youthful fights several talked about forced them to interact. It doesn't have to be physical at all and I get that is hard for some. Just talking to someone new can be enlightening and open up new avenues, making the whole process easier.
     
  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    4,189
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    Having not seen the numbers or where they were collated from I have no idea. That is my point. Do you automatically believe every political ad you see? I hope not.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I'd agree with that. With the tangled skein that is causality in psychological areas, they're probably also partly causal to each other in a significant number of cases (though obviously not at the same time).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    That does happen. I've even (while training managers) had to talk to managers who seemed to think it was appropriate. Baffles the hell outta me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    And when we get closer to psychology, numbers are as easily manipulated as with politics.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I don't see it as pervasive, but I do think it's common enough. I've seen it more often in large organizations, though it's more without repercussions in a small organization (when the offender is top of the totem).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,798
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Look at the stats. Common or pervasive. Call it what you will. It happens a lot.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Chrisinmd

    Chrisinmd Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2018
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yes these stats can be easily manipulated as with all stats. But even if it is off by 50% its still pretty troubling. If the study is to be believed approx 30,000 people commit suicide in the USA each year. And if half are related to bullying that is 15,000 suicides a year. Ok say the study is off by 50% that is still 7500 body bags a year

    Teenage Bullying and Suicide: According to the World Health Organization (WHO) nearly a million people worldwide commit suicide each year. Out of that number, about 30,000 people reportedly kill themselves each year in the United States.
    • Bully victims are between 2 to 9 times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims, according to studies by Yale University
    • 2 Landmark studies in Britain and the United States found that at least half of suicides among young people are related to bullying
    • 10 to 14 year old girls may be at even higher risk for suicide, according to the study above
    • According to statistics reported by ABC News, nearly 30 percent of students are either bullies or victims of bullying, and 160,000 kids stay home from school every day because of fear of bullying
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I agree it's troubling (it's troubling without suicide involvement). Just for intellectual purposes, here's the problem with numbers like these: what qualifies as "related"? If someone is bullied at some point (I'd assume proximate to death) and commits suicide, are the two related? There's definitely a correlation, but is the suicide really related to the bullying? We can't know. Logically (especially for those of us who endured significant bullying), many of them are but we really can't know. And among folks who want to help, there's a tendency (extension of confirmation bias) to find a stronger relationship than exists.

    In case my opening comments in this post aren't clear, I think there's probably a strong and relationship between persistent bullying and suicidal tendencies and attempts (different things, the latter far more likely to result in death). I just don't trust numbers like this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,798
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    The more I think about this, I have to ask what you would consider to be pervasive? I mean, what is your threshold? According to a study done in 2008, 3 out of 4 employees have been affected by worjplace bullying, 47% have been bullied directly, and 27% of them working the previous 12 months. That seems to me to be pervasive. It also doesn't suggest that everyone learns conflict resolution on the playground, and perhaps a more intentional approach should be encouraged.
     
  13. Chrisinmd

    Chrisinmd Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2018
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Agree there is a relationship between persistent bullying and suicidal tendencies and attempts. We just don't know how accurate the stats mentioned above are at this time. Also I imagine their can be more than on factor that contributes to a persons suicide. I just googled the top reasons for suicide. Mental illness, addition, Social Isolation / Loneliness, Traumatic Experience, Unemployment, Bullying, Relationship problems.

    If your being bullied im sure a lot of these other factors come into play as well. Victims of bullying sometimes are also suffering from mental illnesses that make it more difficult for them to stand up for themselves. If your being bullied your most likely also have Social Isolation / Loneliness as well. Its a complicated issue.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I think those numbers are as questionable as any others discussed in this thread. How is "workplace bullying" defined? And what is "affected"? And what's the population? In the average white-collar organization, I'd consider those numbers outliers...if we were using any definition of "bullying" and "affected" I'd consider appropriate.

    So, if half of all workers really were affected by bullying, I'd say that would definitely be pervasive. But I've seen so little of it "in the wild" - in all my visits to literally hundreds of companies - that I find those numbers highly doubtful.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,798
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    If you read the study mentioned in the article in the link I posted, the answers to your questions are right there. Regarding seeing it in the wild, I truly don't see how that's possible. Is it possible that you dobt see it because you aren't looking? What I mean is, I don't know what you do when you are training. Do you interview employees? Do you talk to the hr folks about complaints? I'm just suggesting it's possible that if you are in and out of a business in a week or two, you are not really seeing everything that's going on.

    This is also a topic that is frequently discussed in thr greater training and leadership development community, both private sector and public. Not to mention in EEOC and LR/ER. At the risk of overstating this, questioning the pervasiveness of workplace bullying is like being a climate change denier. What I mean by this is, while i think there is a lot of room for discussion , we should be past the point of agreeing it's a serious issue.
     
  16. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,957
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    You know what's weird to me, Steve? I come from Massachusetts, which is a very liberal state. But I'm now in Hawaii, which is SO liberal it makes Massachusetts look like 1950's Texas.

    But, and this is a huge, and intriguingly odd but to me - political correctness does not really exist here. People, in the workplace, in public, anywhere over here, say things that would get your butt fired in Boston lickety split. Nobody really cares. I always have to keep an eye on myself because I have a big mouth. But here, oh man, people say just about anything. People in authority, too. And in mixed company. I find it refreshing and amusing, but it sure is odd compared to what I'm used to.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,798
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    I think that's cool. But I don't get where you're headed. Are you suggesting workplace bullying is just people being too PC?
     
  18. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I must agree, although I am not a role model of any sorts, to me the political correctness has gone a bit too far, I am not talking about making someone else's life a misery, or constant abuse, but we used to have a saying in the uk, sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me, if we go down the wrap them in cotton wool route, are we not in the same boat as over use of anti biotic or anti bacterial wipes for everything, are we creating more diverse problems later down the road.
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I never said it wasn't a serious issue. What I was trying to say is what I'd define as bullying is probably not affecting (as I'd define that term) nearly 50% of workers across the board. The difference might be entirely in those definitions.

    I'll go back and look at the article later, to see how it addresses those questions I mentioned.

    EDIT: And to clarify, when I'm consulting, I'm usually working at a company off and on (sometimes more on than off) for anywhere from 12 weeks to 2 years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,957
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    Oh no, not at all. I wasn't really headed anywhere, just yapping. I don't really have any first hand experience with "workplace" bullying. Never really saw it in Boston, the PC police were always on guard. And had I seen any, I would have played the anti bullying card anyway.

    And out here, people are chill. Although a few days ago got a call for an "irate passenger" which is radio code for A-hole. It was a fat, ugly lawyer from San Fran, who you could just tell was bullied growing up, and now did the same to everyone he met only in a legal sense. He was bullying everyone he dealt with, using loud, foul language and dismissive gestures, and his wife was informing a gate attendant that they had five current lawsuits going and one more wasn't a problem.

    If there ever was a couple who should be parachuting out of a plane, they were it.123
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page