Two more high-school bullyings

[shesulsa]

One of my teen students goes to a rough school. His history with bullying includes a fight in middle school where he was attacked pretty brutally. He fought to defend himself and was hence suspended on the zero-tolerance policy rule (he was not in my class at the time).

Last week, he emailed me asking what he could do about another teen who was trying to intimidate him and take his money. He taunted my student talking smack about his mother and then demanded money, slapping him in the face. My student - not wanting to hurt the other kid and not wanting to get suspended again - simply said "no." The attacker threatened to bust his face open and slapped him again. At that point my student reports his arms were shaking and he was shaking, angry as hell and ready to put the kid on the ground and started to stand up when the teacher finally intervened, sending the kid to ISS for the rest of the period. We assume he has been suspended, as he hasn't been back to school since.

I was amazed he didn't do something at the first slap. Eventually, this kid will have to come back to school and my student has some clarification now as to what to do and say. I recommended that if this kid start threatening him again to inform him that he got away with it once and that it wouldn't happen again.

What bothers me more about the situation is that my student's parents are willing to let their son get suspended if necessary and likely won't fight for him if he has to defend himself.

The second case of school bullying occurred at my daughter's high school where an Asperger's boy was bullied so much he was about to attempt suicide and is now in the mental hospital. Quite sad.

 

[dancingalone]

What bothers me more about the situation is that my student's parents are willing to let their son get suspended if necessary and likely won't fight for him if he has to defend himself.

I find this saddening that your student's parents are not supporting him.

If your student is at least 15 years old, I would suggest that your student have a meeting with his teacher and a principal about the situation and get their feedback on how this will be handled in the future by the school officials. He should give them a memorandum of understanding after the meeting and keep a copy for himself just so they know they are "on notice".

If he's younger, taking such an approach would be difficult without the help of his parents. Not sure what he needs to do then, but the point is to let the school officials know that there is a problem with him being bullied by another student, and that they need to approach the situation seriously.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The written word is very powerful. I would suggest a meeting with the teacher, principal, parents and child then of course the aforementioned follow up memorandom. You will be amazed at how things are taken seriously then.

 

[shesulsa]

The parents are supporting their kid in his need for self-defense, but seem to be resigned to the idea that if he is suspended for doing so, then so be it. They are insistent that he take measures to handle this on his own as much as possible. I have blatantly encouraged him to insist the administrators pay attention to the situation and insisted he report any and all incidents right away with full disclosure. He has, in my experience, the best chance of avoiding reprimand if he 1) puts the school on notice and 2) acts within reasonable bounds if necessary. But as we've said before, if the kid gets suspended - as would be likely - it seems his parents will accept the suspension.

I spoke to all parents of the kids in the program the other night after a test and made sure they all understood where I was coming from. One thing, though, is that I feel I must give consideration to their family decisions. I offered to be present at any meetings regarding bullying or violence regarding their children at their respective schools. The above and ramping up the anti-bullying and pro-defense portion of class is about the most I feel I can contribute without overstepping my bounds.

I am compelled, however, to address the serious bullying situation in our district and am making some serious considerations about an anti-bullying group here in the area. I'm curious if anyone else here has been a part of such a group?

BTW - the other young man in question trained with me for two nights and hasn't been back since. He's currently in an adolescent mental health unit. I feel compelled to help him, as well - especially since I know some of the kids who bullied him. Thoughts on this?

 

[Makalakumu]

Check the self defense laws of your state. I'm pretty sure the attacker could be charged with assault. Also, if he has to defend himself from the bully, he should make sure he is within the law. The school's policies are trumped by state law and I think a parent could make an interesting argument that if he is legally allowed to defend himself, the school has no right to punish him for it.

 

[shesulsa]

Washington State Use of force: When Lawful -

RCW 9A.16.020

Use of force — When lawful.


The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

(1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction;

(2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;

(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

(4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;

(5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety;

(6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person.

 

[Explorer]

Hi Everybody!

In our case I had to threaten the school with a lawsuit before they would do anything that might remotely deter the bullies.

In each case where my son was beaten, they would call me and tell me that if he defended himself he would be suspended.

I finally informed the school, the school board and my lawyer that I didn't think it was lawful for them to strip away my son's right to self defense and I would sue to protect his rights. They caved. It took about a week of my son defending himself against the bullies ... then the bullying stopped.

My mother used to tell me to ignore bullies and they would go away. I love her with all my heart, but she was wrong.

Zero tolerance policies don't create safety, they create victims.

Best to All,

Explorer

 

[sgtmac_46]

One of my teen students goes to a rough school. His history with bullying includes a fight in middle school where he was attacked pretty brutally. He fought to defend himself and was hence suspended on the zero-tolerance policy rule (he was not in my class at the time).

Last week, he emailed me asking what he could do about another teen who was trying to intimidate him and take his money. He taunted my student talking smack about his mother and then demanded money, slapping him in the face. My student - not wanting to hurt the other kid and not wanting to get suspended again - simply said "no." The attacker threatened to bust his face open and slapped him again. At that point my student reports his arms were shaking and he was shaking, angry as hell and ready to put the kid on the ground and started to stand up when the teacher finally intervened, sending the kid to ISS for the rest of the period. We assume he has been suspended, as he hasn't been back to school since.

I was amazed he didn't do something at the first slap. Eventually, this kid will have to come back to school and my student has some clarification now as to what to do and say. I recommended that if this kid start threatening him again to inform him that he got away with it once and that it wouldn't happen again.

What bothers me more about the situation is that my student's parents are willing to let their son get suspended if necessary and likely won't fight for him if he has to defend himself.

The second case of school bullying occurred at my daughter's high school where an Asperger's boy was bullied so much he was about to attempt suicide and is now in the mental hospital. Quite sad.

The sad fact is that 'Zero Tolerance' policies serve mostly to protect the bullies themselves.

The reality is that Zero Tolerance policies were never actually designed to protect students, they were designed to protect school systems from lawsuit by creating a one size fits all that can't get them sued for the allegation of applying it 'unfairly' toward any given student.

Since all they fear is litigation, the way to fix the problem is to sue the school systems in to instituting common sense solutions.

It's ironic that we as a society are increasingly acknowledging the fundamental right of self-defense in the adult world........but are increasingly attempting to prevent children from having the same fundamental rights.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hi Everybody!

In our case I had to threaten the school with a lawsuit before they would do anything that might remotely deter the bullies.

In each case where my son was beaten, they would call me and tell me that if he defended himself he would be suspended.

I finally informed the school, the school board and my lawyer that I didn't think it was lawful for them to strip away my son's right to self defense and I would sue to protect his rights. They caved. It took about a week of my son defending himself against the bullies ... then the bullying stopped.

My mother used to tell me to ignore bullies and they would go away. I love her with all my heart, but she was wrong.

Zero tolerance policies don't create safety, they create victims.

Best to All,

Explorer

That's the only answer to a bully.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

There are degrees of bullying but they all enjoy others' suffering.
They are sadists, fully aware of the pain they cause and they delight in it. They are adults, maybe not officially, but they should pay adult prices for their CRIMES. They should go to jail and get some poetic justice. Victims can develop severe mental problems that can ruin a good portion of their lives and potential, not to mention have them shelling out extensively for treatment for the rest of their lives. The bullies often retain their inflated self-esteem and willingness to push others around and use it to get ahead in life and live comfortably. Zero tolerance should mean they expel the bully for bullying, not chase the victim out of the school as he or she runs out of options to be safe.

 

[shesulsa]

Update on both cases:

The kid who slapped my student was suspended and is no longer in the same class; he is leaving my student alone the rest of the day so far. I've intentionally increased the self-defense portion of my classes and am trying to encourage discussion on the different types of bullying.

The teen who attempted suicide is getting out of the hospital today - the bullies in his class and at school have been exposed, other students empowered to stand up against bullies and encouraged to exhibit solidarity if not friendship with the boy.

I'm scheduling a meeting with the band teachers at my daughter's school (second boy goes to same school) to discuss some lazy behavior on their part in supervising these teens and am considering an email campaign to the martial arts schools in the area about this bullying problem and lackadaisical school response.

 

[Explorer]

Glad to hear there is progress. Please keep us posted on how things go.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Asperger's is a difficult condition to live with, but you can help the boy out simply by letting him know you care about him. The best therapeutic relationships are simply of a genuine caring nature.

There is plenty of information out there about how bullying can lead to severe emotional and psychological problems such as major depressive disorder, dysthymia, and even PTSD. Here's a one link I found in less than 15 seconds.

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13057

Bring up the issue with the school social worker, see what he or she can't do to help with the subject as it is a social worker's prerogative to shake things up.

 

[repz]

The parents need to get involved. Go the school, speak to the principle, demand changes, lawsuits, police involvement. I am not going to pretend I am a lawyer, or know about law (which i dont, even for my own state when it comes to children) but one kid attacking another is assault, regardless of where they are standing or sitting at, and the teachers and school officials should mediate these behaviors and make sure these children are safe under their care since they are directly responsible for them. Teachers dont want to make fights serious because a kid ending up in 'juevy' under their supervision could result in bad attention, or a very angry parent whos kid is in kiddy jail, so they downplay it with suspensions and pep talks as if it would resolve things.

I used to beat up bullies in school, I was a mini-enforcer, some kids used to pay me in comic books as appreciation (i got the lizards first appearance against spiderman once, i dont have it anymore tho lol)... then junior high hit and the kids started using knives, then in high school they turned to guns, so at these points I just picked the good crowd and tried to be friendly to get them to stop bullying. Kids were very racist, blacks being racist to white, and whites to black, picking up people due to mental and physical handicaps, kids can be real cruel.

 

[Nervous Smile]

There are degrees of bullying but they all enjoy others' suffering.
They are sadists, fully aware of the pain they cause and they delight in it. They are adults, maybe not officially, but they should pay adult prices for their CRIMES. They should go to jail and get some poetic justice. Victims can develop severe mental problems that can ruin a good portion of their lives and potential, not to mention have them shelling out extensively for treatment for the rest of their lives. The bullies often retain their inflated self-esteem and willingness to push others around and use it to get ahead in life and live comfortably. Zero tolerance should mean they expel the bully for bullying, not chase the victim out of the school as he or she runs out of options to be safe.

I can attest to that! Bullying throughout my childhood exacerbated my general anxiety disorder and alienated me. Thankfully, the schools I had attended did not have zero-tolerance policies, so when the bullying turned violent I wasn't unduly punished. I can't recall a single time where I received administrative punishment.

 

[Mark Jordan]

A student have rights and the school must do something to protect anyone from bullying. Talk to the school principal 'cuz each school should have a clear school behaviour policy.

If your talking to them doesn't help transfer your child to a school that doesn't have zero-tolerance policy.

 

[shesulsa]

The Asperger's student has now returned to training with me. The bullying towards him continues and the teen who previously broke his nose tried to beat him up again and has now threatened to stab him. This boy has been suspended for five days. There is, however, another boy in the band who consistently bullies my student. When my daughter stood up for the Asperger's student and told the bully to shut up, the bully's mother (a volunteer in the booster org) told her to shut up.

Yes, you read that correctly - the mother ... stood up ... for her bully child.

I spoke with the band directors and they promise to "fix it." I'm not sure what it's going to take ... another hospitalization for the Asperger's boy?

Mom informed the band directors last night that she has a whole lotta law on her side here.

I am tempted to find reason to visit the band room every day after school since the band directors fail to do their job of supervising the teens in their classroom after school.

I can't imagine how any sensible adult would be so cavalier after a suicide attempt by one of their students due to the bullying from two other students.

What ARE they thinking?

 

[Langenschwert]

What ARE they thinking?

They're not thinking. They're passing the buck. After all, we all know that ignoring problems makes them go away, and it's better to do nothing than something. It's more important for bullies to have free reign to do as they please than it is for others to have a safe educational environment. It's more important for a school to keep up appearances than risk open criticism by actually doing something.

Just an attempt to explain their warped take on things.

Perhaps the band director gets a perverse pleasure in seeing people bullied? Just a thought.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[shesulsa]

Ok - so far, the two boys who have aggressively bullied the Asperger boy (my student) will be banned from the music program next year.

This is good ... but it also makes me very concerned about *now* ... there are two weeks of school left and some parade rehearsal, etcetera. Why not ban them immediately? Just make them sort musical scores or clean the tubas? It's not as though there's nothing to do that can keep them busy and in the line of sight of the directors. Sheesh.

 

[knuckleheader]

Ok - so far, the two boys who have aggressively bullied the Asperger boy (my student) will be banned from the music program next year.

This is good ... but it also makes me very concerned about *now* ... there are two weeks of school left and some parade rehearsal, etcetera. Why not ban them immediately? Just make them sort musical scores or clean the tubas? It's not as though there's nothing to do that can keep them busy and in the line of sight of the directors. Sheesh.

Can you get an advocate from an asperger association. If this bully has already broken the boys nose. Where is the lawsuit? The school should have suspened or even expelled the bullies.
This episode is making me angry at the asperger boys parents for not aggressively defending their son with all LEGAL recourse.
Props for trying. Ous.