Arts that teach knife and gun defense

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by skribs, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,622
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    Animals have personality too. Sharks come in all shapes and sizes.
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    man eating sharks dont, if your going swimming with basking sharks then you can just ignore them, those little ones can give you a really nasty nip

    id be really interested to see any study that has concluded that great whites or tiger sharks have different personalities, they seem to be perfectly evolved killing machines, pacifist sharks dont get to adolescence, what other personality traits are you thinking about ?
     
  3. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,622
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    Watch just about any nature show that was produced after 1995 and you'll get your proof.
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    so YOU have no proof at all then ? its a running theme on here of people saying preposterous things and then refusing to back them up
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    18,097
    Likes Received:
    4,446
    Trophy Points:
    308
    I have narrowed my disarms to basically one wrist lock and basic fighting.(I could probably find a circumstance to go for something else but it would be rare)

    And then I just use that to pretty much disarm everything.

    Sorry. If they are swinging something at me I basically push their arm downwards.

    By the way I can't catch an arm coming towards me and don't try.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    18,097
    Likes Received:
    4,446
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Bull sharks are a holes.
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    no just merciless killing machines, they don't contrary to skribs view have a sense of right and wrong and have good ones and bad ones. the entire moral compass is HUNGRY... EAT
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    18,097
    Likes Received:
    4,446
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Bull Shark
     
  9. Prostar

    Prostar Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Wow, did I slip over to Scuba Board?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,622
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    No. There is such a large quantity of proof I don't even know where to begin. The proof is so prevalent you just have to turn on any documentary about sharks and you'll see it.

    What you asked for is like proving that the Earth isn't flat. It's something that's been known for my entire life by pretty much everyone. Sharks are curious animals. Sharks are inquisitive, and most bites on humans aren't because of their killer instinct, it's because they investigate with their mouths.

    I told you how to find the evidence. I gave a very broad spectrum of it. That you're stuck in 1950 is not my fault or my problem.
     
  11. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,622
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    You can have a personality without having a moral compass. And there's more going on in their minds than just hungry and eat.
     
  12. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    103
    You dont mess with bull sharks. i belive they are the most aggressive shark and are the most territorial. but most of the others will leave you alone unless they think you are food. or you get caught up in a feeding session or bleed etc. And this is when you realise sperm whales. can eat people. (i might have mixed a whale up, pretty sure its sperm whales. i think the whale sharks dont have the throat diamter to. )
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,934
    Likes Received:
    6,414
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    Knife disarming....

    I used to teach the same stuff my original instructors taught me. Including knife defense and disarms. Hopefully, nobody got killed over it, because if they had been forced to do what I had taught them back then.....oh, man.

    I've been training in knife fighting since 2003. Not a long time compared to others, but a good start. I took to it really well for some reason, which surprised me, as I have never had an affinity for Martial weapons other than hand guns.

    By now, I knife fight pretty well. I have a lot of confidence in myself as a knife man. As a cop, I always have a knife, but as a utility tool rather than a weapon. And like @hoshin1600, I've carried a jackknife since I was a kid. We all did back then. But again, not as a weapon, it's just what kids did back then.

    I've trained "knife-grappling" with Mark Human from South Africa. He used to be in our club, but broke off. I'm old friends with his wife, Kelly, a really good martial Artist in her own right, she used to be married to Nick Cerrio. Knife-grappling was about accessing your blade while you were down and fighting on the ground, and trying to prevent the other person from accessing a weapon of their own. I learned a ton, I'm very grateful.

    In our own "tribe" which is the term the groups of knife guys across New England used, we used to have good, hard training. We used a lot of different training knives, but I favored the NOK trainers that I got from @Brian VanCise. Thanks again, Brian.

    One of the drills we did when we had a lot of the tribe members at any particular session, we did for money after the class. Everybody would throw in ten or twenty bucks. Two of the NOK trainers were in the middle of the floor about eight feet apart. Everybody was paired off. Two guys would be against opposite walls and somebody would say GO! You would charge as fast as you could, grab a knife and start knife fighting. First guy to suffer a fatal was out. Went through everybody, the tribe getting halved each time. The last guy got the money. Let me tell you, after a hard day of training....the money made you work hard and fast. And it was sooo much fun. Four hundred in cash if you win? Great fun. I won a couple of those.

    I've also worked with ex-cons on their form of killing with a knife. Ugly stuff. Very effective, but seriously ugly stuff. Learned a good bit of stuff that way. Several of my long time students worked in prisons for many years... if you wondered how I hook up with ex-cons. But I learned a lot.

    I told you that long, boring story for a reason. After all that training, again, at something I'm good at, I still have absolutely no idea how to disarm somebody with a knife. Not a clue. As I mentioned in a previous post, I taught my advanced guys hand gun disarming, but not knife disarming. I told them about others who might teach them, but I couldn't because I suck at it. I learned how to.....but I could never pull it off against a resisting guy. So I don't try any more. If you have a knife and I get mine out....never a guarantee because it's usually an ambush weapon....but if I do before getting cut badly, you are so f'n screwed.

    You know who wins a knife fight? The guy that gets to the hospital first.

    Anyway, hopefully someday one of you guys can teach me how to defang the snake. Because nobody else can. And it wasn't for lack of trying. I just really suck at it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    63
    They are like that in the north of England,.
    Didnt you know all the worlds greatest naturalists come from Manchester?
    Yep, its known for its people being world renowned know it alls, infact, they are debating in parliment this week about renaming the encyclopedia Britannica, to fit the word Manchester in the title, because of all the contributions made by Manchestonians.:D:D
     
  15. quasar44

    quasar44 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    During my 4 yrs in krav we did some knife and gun stuff
    I would say I learned the basics but never progressed as far as I should .
    It’s very simple and can work
    It’s better than nothing
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Some of my favourite training knife grappling, the drill I spoke of earlier, we also do whilst on the ground.
    Here in the UK, the different laws on knifes and guns means there is a difference in what is carried, very few guns compared to other regions, and knifes are carried mainly by teens and up to the mid 20's, and because of this, most of the weapon carriers, until they become seasoned in the weapon of choice, carry in their body language a perception of confidence even arrogance when carrying, a type of psyche that would be similar to someone who is approached by a knife wielder, when they had a semi automatic behind their back, so the training here is a slightly different prospective, yes knife defense, but also trying to recognise the movement or body language of a weapon holder, the psyche I just mentioned, gives the weapon holder confidence, this means they move differently in a volitile or stressful senario, like a fight, even on the events that lead to the situation, so we train to try to recognise these signs. Its a skill that needs to be built, one of the things I do, is sit in the car whilst mrs Gweilo goes into the supermarket, I can sit there for an hour, watching people go in and come out of the store, observing their movement, looking for tension in their movement, when someone I am observing come bout of the store, my thought process is... tension in the left side of the body, limping left leg, problem with left hip, next person, slight arching of the back, trouble looking around, problen with neck.
    With practice its a skill that can homed, to the point I can sometimes spot the shoplifters, as they exit the store, spotting when they are concealing their bounty, Ive not had the misfortune of testing this in a live situation or a live knife situation, but can spot peoples intentions in a sparring situation. But I beleive with the combination of skills developed, I have a better chance of surviving, yes there is a chance i could be hurt, but as with fighting, I dont want to, but its ok to fight if I have to.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,622
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    One of the reasons I went back to martial arts 6 years ago was that I was training how to use guns, and I started reading things like the 21-foot rule and hearing stories of people who used their gun defensively, but before they could get to their gun they had to fend off a few punches. I actually wanted to train Baguazhang instead of Taekwondo, because I felt the way they do footwork would be perfect. There were no bagua schools nearby so I went back to TKD.

    If I do create a martial art at some point, it would be an art built around that principle - how to escape a grab or defend a strike long enough to get to your gun. To my knowledge, there aren't many places that teach something like that. Most of them have combat pistol courses and expect you to take your martial arts training somewhere else.

    Only problem is since I started taking TKD I've neglected my range time. And I'd probably need to cross-train in wrestling to work on escapes from the clinch and some ground work.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,090
    Likes Received:
    6,836
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Which wrist lock is it you find useful for that, db?
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    18,097
    Likes Received:
    4,446
    Trophy Points:
    308
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,090
    Likes Received:
    6,836
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I love that and the variations on it. Better turned out (as he showed, and is common in most of Aikido, but not the way it’s first taught in NGA).123
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page