Technique develop + polish + enhance

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,139
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    Beside "test" by sparing/wrestling, the other 3 training stages, develop, polish, and enhance can be seen in the following clips. It's very easy to learn and develop any particular MA skill by following these 4 stages (sparring/wrestling clip is not included).

    What's your opinion on this?

    Develop by partner drill:

    [​IMG]

    Polish by solo drill:

    [​IMG]

    Enhance by weight equipment:

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,341
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    I would classify these as different methods, not necessarily different stages. You can do them in any order, but you should build proficiency before you spar.

    I'd also take out "weight equipment" and just say "equipment", because then you can apply the same concept to drilling strikes with pads (i.e. a boxer throwing punches at a partner with mitt pads, a TKD guy kicking a kick shield or a BOB).
     
  3. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    859
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Australia
    I like it :)

    Good categories, and like skribs said any extra equipment used to enhance the technique timing, distance, accuracy and power would be in that category I reckon.
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,648
    Likes Received:
    967
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    compliant partner !
     
  5. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    2,142
    Trophy Points:
    388
    Location:
    New Iberia, Louisiana USA
    When first learning a technique (movement) go slow, working the motion, use a compliant partner to practice the motion to know the particular (steps) then with ever increasing resistance as you become more comfortable with the technique, finally spar it. Working the same motion over and over like dancing without a partner is great for smoothing out the moves and for warming up but does little in the way of actually becoming proficient in applying it.
     
  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,139
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    In "test", your opponent will not compliant". In SC, the develop and test are considered different stages. It is possible that one may have gone through these 3 stages training, but he can't apply it even once in the ring or on the mat.

    A EE PhD may not know how to fix a broken TV. A computer programmer may not know how to become a hacker. To work in a real job is different from learning from school.

    If you want to learn how to fight, you have to fight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,648
    Likes Received:
    967
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    im talking about the vid you posted, clearly a compliant partner stepping in to the exact right position for the technique to work and not in anyway resisting the movement.

    that technique will have great problems with a fully resistant partner, they wont come that close or will grab you and take you with them when they go over. watch two judo men going at it in competition and you see how hard it is to do that unless they let you or are completely inept
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,139
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    If your opponent keeps distance away from you, none of your technique will work on him.

    This is why the ground game is important. If you have a good control on your opponent's arm, when you take your opponent down, you will have advantage in your ground game.

    Here is an example.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  9. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,341
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    The 5 stages of developing technique:
    1. Drill against active compliance
    2. Drill against passive compliance
    3. Drill against passive resistance
    4. Drill against active resistance
    5. Spar, variate, experiment
    You cannot build technique by only ever sparring. You have to drill. And some of that drilling needs to be against compliant partners, especially when:
    • You are first learning the technique
    • You are drilling a correction to the technique
    • You are experimenting with the technique (before you ramp up the resistance again)
    • You are demonstrating the technique for the purpose of teaching or entertainment
    It can also be nice as a warm-up.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,139
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    Agree that to drill against active resistance is good. The only concern is this may violate the basic MA principle "force against force vs. borrow force."

    In MA, we try not to use force against force. (A - B < A). If you try to pull me and I resist, you may pull me harder and still throw me if you are stronger than me. But if you can borrow my resistance force, change your pull into push, you may only need a little force to throw me (A + B > A).

    I prefer to call your full resistance training as "combo training" (use one throw to set up another throw) that's different from the "solo skill training".

    If my throw require

    - push, I'll pull you first.
    - clockwise rotation, I'll rotate you counter-clock first.
    - ...

    Old saying said, "the best throw is a throw that how your opponent wants you to throw him (not how you want to throw your opponent)".

    Ifyour opponent wants to

    - sit down, you will press him down.
    - raise up, you will lift him up.
    - ...

    You should not against his will.

    In the following clip, he is not training throw A. He is training how to use throw A to set up throw B in the opposite direction.

    In other words, he has just moved from training throw A into training throw B. When he applies throw B, his opponent still has no resistance.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  11. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,341
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    That's the point of resistance training. Your opponent resists your technique, so can you use proper technique to overcome their strength and/or can you change techniques to go with their resistance instead of against it.

    If I'm trying to pull your arm inside to step up a V-Lock and you pull against it, I can:
    1. Use proper footwork to overcome your arm strength
    2. Modify the technique in order to bypass your arm strength
    3. Change to a technique that goes outside to go with your arm strength
    If you never train against resistance, you never learn how to apply the technique against it, or how to read the resistance and instinctively change technique.

    The video you show is drilling against resistance.123
     

Share This Page