Am I using a dolyo chagi chamber for a yeop chagi here? (VIDEO)=

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Acronym, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    Also, just an opinion here (albeit arguably a qualified one) - it definitely does make your form worse - the point it's almost unrecognisable as a side kick (and hence would score accordingly).

    I'm a Kukkiwon-certified Poom/Dan Examiner and Kukkiwon-certified Master Instructor.
     
  2. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    For completeness here's Grandmaster Kang's version of side kicks.

     
  3. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Now you’re talking about form as in patterns. What I meant is that it doesn't make my form worse when it comes to fighting, since my balance and posture isn't dictacted by how high or tight the chamber is.
     
  4. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    No, no - I meant form as in appearance. You may mean it doesn't make your 'effectiveness' any worse and I'd still argue that you're doing a turning kick and are therefore missing out on many of the qualities that make a side kick different to a turn kick (e.g. natural defence against a stomach-side turning kick). But either way your form is affected by performing the chamber incorrectly.

    Form vs function.
     
  5. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    To my eyes, there is no overlap here with a turning kick. Will you point to what that would be?

     
  6. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    OK, so a lead leg side kick is much harder to critique the chamber, particularly when done to the side (from the camera's POV). A rear leg side kick towards the camera or if you're kicking right leg, towards the right edge of the video is better.

    However, as you asked, I paused the video in YouTube, hit "," multiple times until at the beginning and the hit "." 32 times. That gets you to a point where the kick is extending to the target. It appears that your kicking foot is past the line formed from your hip to the target (i.e. out to your right hand side), that means the kick force is moving slightly to your left as you extend, whereas usually in a side kick it would go from the left to the right slightly.

    Again though, not the best angle or kick style to ask for tip/critique on. A skipping side kick (I would call it that rather than a lead leg side kick, which would normally be just a lift and kick, without the back foot moving) is easier to perform than a regular side kick, because your body is already turned to the correct angle and the skipping of the back/standing legs makes it easier to pivot it.
     
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    I have an innate flaw that makes me bounce up and then forward when doing a skipping side kick. I've tried to get it streamlined but can't seem to do it. Could it be that my large frame isn't suited for Taekwondo style sparring? I could never get those smooth transitions and my partners pick up the tells and move out of my range before the leg is even half way up.

    I'm being totally serious here, I think big builds are a disadvantage in TKD. I'm curious if this is your experience as well?

    In boxing there are a number of ways you can fight but if you don’t have slickness and footwork in Taekwondo, you won't land anything!



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  8. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    I would say that it's likely that you're just not play smart enough. You're playing a first level game, and you need to be on third level. I'd describe the three levels as:

    1. Attacking - you can kick with single attacks and put combinations together
    2. Countering - you can react quickly enough to an attack to score on your opponent with the right timing
    3. Trapping - you can start attacks (or movements that simulate an attack) to get your opponent to counter, then react to their opponent.

    So if you stand still or bounce on the spot, then suddenly go forward, your opponents will easily detect that and react with second level game. If you are constantly moving in and out slightly, dropping your weight harder and then softly again, twitching your hips as if you are about to kick - you make it much harder for them to react. So it's not above smooth transitions - it's about disguising your intent.

    Then, you need to get in to reading your opponents - what do they "always" do and what do they "never" do. Then you can "react" to situations faster because you can anticipate their behaviour better. Like reading of tells in poker. So it will seem like your kicks are faster or your reactions are quicker, but in fact you're just reacting to a tell, rather than the full movement.

    Your body size is what it is, you can still compete well with others in your bracket, or have fun outside of your bracket.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  9. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    I am constantly moving but as soon as I load up for the kick they spot it and move out of the way.
     
  10. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    Don't load up for the kick, focus on initiating the kick from movement, practice just that initial phase with a mirror/camera to see how seamless you can get it.
     
  11. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    One way to practice avoiding this is to have a sparring stance where the rear foot has the heel off the floor and it points mostly forward. (Rear Knee slightly bent) Think of pushing with that foot from the floor like a sprinter coming out of the starting blocks. Think of it as if there is a rope attached to your foot and someone yanks on it . Work this with a partner holding pads. Tell them to let you know what if any motion they see happen before the kicking foot moves. Then eliminate that motion.
     
  12. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Do lead lead hook kicks (ones you see Bill Wallace doing) score in ITF sparring even though we only have a spinning version of that kick in our formal system?

    See here:
     
  13. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    It's easier but there are a lot of people who can't generate power out of skipping side kicks nonetheless. It's a timing kick more so than a roundhouse. Any roundhouse kick will be hard as long as you turn over. Not so with side kicks.
     
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Some day, I’d like to understand what the hell you people are talking about. :D
     
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  15. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    When one learns a new technique it's taught pronounced and exaggerated. This is to ingrain the principles of the motions. Then when applied in fighting there is no longer (neccesarily) full range of motion.

    That's why I mean that many techniques you see in free sparring might have gotten low scoring in kata/forms judging because they weren't obvious enough from point A to B. But that's precisely the point in sparring to avoid telegraphing.

    In self defense, you might revert back to full range of motion for extra power because your attacker doesn't spar you and has no idea what is coming and might never heard of a "roundhouse kick". or "side kick". So I can both dust him off and get good marks from a kata ref.
     
  16. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    I cannot agree with that. ANDY JEFFERIES quote was spot on. I would add that timing can/will play into any kick based on strategy, experience and skill. It has nothing do do with kick selection. "Hard" is fully dependent on the kicker and their own skill and ability. Yes, there are other factors outside this scope such as an opponent walking into a kick. Of course this is effective and a plus for the kicker but that does Not mean the kick itself was hard or powerful.
     
  17. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Everybody in my club with moderate experience hits hard roundhouse kicks to the mitts.
     
  18. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Sure. That is the intent of bag/mitt work using cadence.
     
  19. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Everybody does not throw hard skipping side kicks to the mitts.
     
  20. Jaeimseu

    Jaeimseu 2nd Black Belt

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    I find this to be true. However, I have found that it’s often due to chambering a side kick like a round kick and having the foot take a non-linear path to the target.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk123
     
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