Am I using a dolyo chagi chamber for a yeop chagi here? (VIDEO)=

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Acronym, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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  2. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    I said 180 degrees for KKW:cool:
     
  3. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    I mean from the angle of your foot in the videos. A good bit past 45°. Makes the leg return much harder.

    And that is a very generalized angle that is more correct for yeop chagi, not dollyo chagi.
     
  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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  5. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Yeah... I wrote that it's past 45 degrees, but it's not 180 degrees either. A lot of ITF guys go beyond 45 degrees, including in the encyclopedia, but not 170-180...
     
  6. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    I can assure you that modern KKW is 170-180 degrees. Older masters teaching older systems of KKW might very well do 45 degrees like ITF. That I don't know.
     
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Again, 170-180 degrees, straight from Korea, and it's not even very new..

     
  8. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    And here's Susska, a world champion in ITF forms to wrap it up.

     
  9. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    We do every type of side kick that I know of, at least the more athletic, flexible students do. We do that with every kick.

    With the less athletically gifted, less flexible students, we still teach them all the kicks, keying on the mechanics and weaknesses that every single kick has.

    Some people won’t realistically ever be able to throw jump spinning kicks. But they sure like learning how to rip someone out of the air when it’s being thrown at them. You eat a lot of kicks learning like that but it’s how to learn against resistance. And it’s a lot of fun.
     
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  10. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Funnily enough, ageing might also change your style. I know a TKD instructor who kicks in his senior age (60ish) more like Karate roundhouse kicks (crouched posture). He is still doing the splits and everything but maybe he's more careful these days. I know for a fact he threw them differently in the pictures from the 80s. Side kicks he does the same as before.
     
  11. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Back to this rotation business. I don't believe an instructor of either organization would fail you in a grading if you do a 180 degrees KKW pivot in an ITF grading or vice versa. They might point it out but I doubt they would fail you.

    And there's also this thing of "advanced practitioners move freely".. mantra.. so I'm agnostic as to whether it's fundamental or just a preference.

    They don't check for every parameter in gradings.
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Should his target be 30 degree (or even 45 degree) to his left and not just straight in front of him? His target may be in front of him. But he will need that extra 30 degree to let his kicking power to go through.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Funny but both your videos below look "older". I know of no one teaching 180° for a roundhouse kick. It is not necessary and just makes no sense, doing more harm than good.
    The KKW link I attached is as current as you will find. Like I said nowhere do they mention a specific angle but clearly show in the pictures and videos that dollyo chagi is Not 180°.
    Now some people need more rotation to make certain kicks work. Not necessarily wrong while they are working on increasing their stretch but I have seen it create some bad habits that were hard to break.
    Try this; time several rear leg mid to high level roundhouse kicks with the standing foot at 45° or less and then time several with the standing foot fully rotated as you mention. See which kick is quicker from start to finish back to the starting position.
     
  14. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    @Jaeimseu

    Still 170-180 degrees rotation for dolyo chagi in your class?
     
  15. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Like I wrote before, the picture illustrations aren't always displaying the precise parameters.

    It's the same in the ITF encyclopedia where they overrotate the base foot in the dolyo chagi photos.
     
  16. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Maybe it generates more power but I agree it seems overcooked. My lenses are ITF though.
     
  17. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Grandmaster in KKW.. 180 degrees again...



     
  18. Jaeimseu

    Jaeimseu 2nd Black Belt

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    For poomsae, yes. For sparring it depends on the footwork used.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

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    Thanks. Then I'll let you slug it out with @dvchorchan because I don't have a dog in this fight. He does not think there is any reason to rotate that much. You say?
     
  20. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Um, no. Again, not on the dollyo chagi, only on the yeop chagi shown in the video. There is a lot of variation depending on the intent of the kick.
    Did you see how he got 'stuck' on his heel on one dollyo chagi? That is an inherent problem with over-rotation.123
     

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