In Pursuit of Deep Battle: The Keysi Fighting Method

Shai Hulud

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Hello, MT.

Now there isn't a lot of material out there on the Keysi Fighting Method mainly due to its young age and lack of published articles on the subject. Its basic principles are pretty straightforward, most of which, at least in theory, are borrowed from Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do, western boxing, Wing Chun, and contemporary street-fighting. It's a hybrid style that claims to be specifically designed for use in the street (or anywhere where you have to use it, really) and a real no-nonsense approach to self-defense. I've personally worked with KFM for a solid two years (I've since moved on to pursue graduate school overseas; I'm training in Sambo now) and a few months, and while I'm still a module short of elite-level proficiency I've grown to appreciate its key concepts. At its heart it's a close-range style, up-close and personal with a heavy emphasis on hand/elbow and knee combatives. The line between striking and grappling are blurred as techniques intended for blocking become chambering mechanisms for immediate response, or strikes in themselves similar to hard locks with impact.

The most typical example of this, and as shown in the video link provided above, is the Pensador guard the KFM builds so much on. By adjusting your upper extremities, upper back, shoulders and core when deflecting an incoming upper body strike or high-level kick, the Pensador allows you to chamber the far hand and immediately counter. Nothing special or original, but for the purposes and circumstances that KFM covers, it works quite well. Despite its simplicity though, its sometimes unorthodox or seemingly Hollywood-style (most famously on the recent Batman trilogy) approaches to combat like in this example draw flak. I'll admit that at times it's also left wanting in terms of how to deal with a proficient kicker, or an uppercut with the Pensador guard active.

From my experience with KFM, its training methods parallel what you see in Krav Maga and Russian Systema curricula. Other training methods popular in the world of Mixed Martial Arts are also tapped into as they should be - work with the heavy bags, speed and medicine balls, all that. The difference lies really in its fight philosophy: how founder Juego Dieguez selected specific techniques to borrow and his criteria for doing so in light of his approach to street-fighting. It's still a style in its infancy in spite of its claim to having all angles covered and is still very much making small adjustments and tweaks as it goes along.

Anyone else here had any experience with Keysi? I would love to hear what the MT Community thinks of this unorthodox (albeit lackluster, according to its critics) fighting style.
 

Paul_D

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The only experience I have was a one hour lesson at a seminar. We spent the time covering ourself with the Pensador guard while people put on sparring pads (not gloves, the hand held target pads) and hit us.

Obviously there wasn't time to go into it more in depth. the system peaked my interest enough to want to do a few follow up lessons to see what else was on offer, until I found out the cost. They were charging double what other MA clubs in the area charged , so that was the end of my experience with KFM. The club only lasted a handful of weeks before it closed, so I didn't get chance to go on any more seminars.
 

drop bear

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Quite often less is more with martial arts. So the ideas can be sound but taken too far. In my opinion.
 

drop bear

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by the way that low stance.sort of, being used by rob. So it can work.
 

Mephisto

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I don't have much experience with the system but from what I've seen I've been unimpressed. It seems like just another rbsd system of the week. These systems have a lot of hype surrounding them, are expensive, and give the idea that traditional systems are a waste of time and sports systems leave you defenseless on the deadly streets. There are no shorts cuts in martial arts, and those that take time to develope fundamentals will be good. If a new art claims to be effective, let's see it in action. Prove your system works. A lot of stuff relys too much on theory and concept without evidence of applicabale ability. It's easy to make something seem effective on paper or against a compliant opponent but doing it in real time is a problem. Often what rbsd systems show for real time application is a guy in a motorcycle helmet or red man suit, haphazardly rush in with a lunge punch and suddenly stop fighting while the other person unloads. This is not sparring or resistance training, it is confidence building and it's dangerous to build false confidence when you lack ability.
 

drop bear

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What's happening in the video? Who are these people? Can't watch it at work.

It is a mate of mine rob. Using that low stance you would see in the keysi basics video. Not using the picador guard though. But it is ha high front guard. It look a bit strange but he can definitely fight from elements of that keysi method.
(he is not a keysi guy just a bit of parallel evolution going on.

now here is a vid of keysi not using that guard at all just getting a tight hand up. And looking a lot more like boxing.which i would prefer
 
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Shai Hulud

Shai Hulud

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The only experience I have was a one hour lesson at a seminar. We spent the time covering ourself with the Pensador guard while people put on sparring pads (not gloves, the hand held target pads) and hit us.

Obviously there wasn't time to go into it more in depth. the system peaked my interest enough to want to do a few follow up lessons to see what else was on offer, until I found out the cost. They were charging double what other MA clubs in the area charged , so that was the end of my experience with KFM. The club only lasted a handful of weeks before it closed, so I didn't get chance to go on any more seminars.
I'm sorry to hear that, but yes it is rather on the pricey side. I was talking with Tez3 just last year regarding how I've been looking for lower-cost alternatives because my wallet didn't care much for KFM.

I myself have mixed feelings about the Pensador. I tried it again not too long ago at my new Sambo school, and I was punished with a terrific kick to my side. Still, it's a neat little hack great for catching typical punches. I suspect that's what it's for anyway - designed to counter roundhouse punches, "haymakers" and punches swinging for the hills.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I suspect that's what it's for anyway - designed to counter roundhouse punches, "haymakers" and punches swinging for the hills.
Yeah, that's the impression I get as well. It's an quick way to get a beginner to the point of being able to handle fighting in close against a typical street headhunter. Sort of like the classic Gracie Jiu-Jitsu basic entry to get the clinch against a puncher. It's not at all ideal against a skilled opponent who knows how to cut angles and throw low strikes, but it has its place.

I'm not a fan of the way they throw their headbutts in the videos I've seen. I know that method works for some people, but I find it less than ideal.
 

drop bear

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Yeah, that's the impression I get as well. It's an quick way to get a beginner to the point of being able to handle fighting in close against a typical street headhunter. Sort of like the classic Gracie Jiu-Jitsu basic entry to get the clinch against a puncher. It's not at all ideal against a skilled opponent who knows how to cut angles and throw low strikes, but it has its place.

I'm not a fan of the way they throw their headbutts in the videos I've seen. I know that method works for some people, but I find it less than ideal.

High hands is easy to be double legged as well.
What is the issue with the head butts?. (I just use wrestling head control with a bit extra pep. And that works ok.)
 

Zero

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Often what rbsd systems show for real time application is a guy in a motorcycle helmet or red man suit, haphazardly rush in with a lunge punch and suddenly stop fighting while the other person unloads. This is not sparring or resistance training, it is confidence building and it's dangerous to build false confidence when you lack ability.

This is a good point to note! While RBSD has a lot to offer if done right, a lot of what I have also seen and experienced is still far too removed from reality. And maybe in some respects this potentially gives students an even more inflated (and thus dangerous) sense of ability than TMA in that respect. I see a lot of the fully padded bad guy rushing in but then going passive or offering little resistance either standing or when being taken to ground and as you say, the "victim" then opening up. Try doing that to a padded up guy (and noting, at least from my observation, it is often a bigger/heavier guy wearing the red suit) who actively continues his assault or resists with full intent...
 

Zero

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High hands is easy to be double legged as well.
What is the issue with the head butts?. (I just use wrestling head control with a bit extra pep. And that works ok.)
Yup, I take it you mean scissor takedown or double leg shoot?
 

Zero

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I myself have mixed feelings about the Pensador. I tried it again not too long ago at my new Sambo school, and I was punished with a terrific kick to my side. Still, it's a neat little hack great for catching typical punches. I suspect that's what it's for anyway - designed to counter roundhouse punches, "haymakers" and punches swinging for the hills.

That's a nice point to make and remember, with both elbows those bbq-ribs are looking awfully open and appetising to all types of strikes.
 

Tony Dismukes

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What is the issue with the head butts?.
In the videos I've seen, they use the style of head butt that looks something like a sharp bow, traveling in the direction the eyes are looking and impacting with the forehead. This can be effective - unless the other guy lowers his head a bit more than you do, in which case you smash your own face into the top of your opponent's head. (I'm a tall guy, so that would be the likely outcome if I used this method.)

I prefer the method where I establish head control and use it to force my opponent's head up and away while I lower my own head below his with the top of my head aimed at his face, then use my legs to drive the top of my head towards his face while pulling his head back down into the impact.

I've also played with little side-to-side head butts from a tie-up position. You won't get knock out power, but you won't break your own face either.
 

Zero

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In the videos I've seen, they use the style of head butt that looks something like a sharp bow, traveling in the direction the eyes are looking and impacting with the forehead. This can be effective - unless the other guy lowers his head a bit more than you do, in which case you smash your own face into the top of your opponent's head. (I'm a tall guy, so that would be the likely outcome if I used this method.)

I prefer the method where I establish head control and use it to force my opponent's head up and away while I lower my own head below his with the top of my head aimed at his face, then use my legs to drive the top of my head towards his face while pulling his head back down into the impact.

I've also played with little side-to-side head butts from a tie-up position. You won't get knock out power, but you won't break your own face either.
I take your points and that is the form of head butt I also trained in while younger. But when I started karate, the style of head butt we drilled against the foam pads was more akin to the one in the video - it was a forward driving impact with the forehead (with not a lot of downward angle, if any), applied either freely or as you say with neck/head control or with grip to gi / front of shirt. Those nice little annoying side head butts apply equally to stand up clinching or wrestling.

Never actually head butted anyone in real life..., did have a guy try to head butt me in a fight at a party, he was on the bottom and tried to launch one up at me. I was just lucky enough to smother it and wear it on my own forehead and not get it in the kisser. The downside for him was that he exposed his own neck for a perfect neck crank, kubi hishigi, which I put on pretty harshly. It had been a kind of BS push around party fight between young punks until he tried to give me the Liverpool kiss and that startled me and got me right pissed off. After that I really hated on that guy, laugh at me if you want and say there's no such thing as "rules" out of the ring but my view was and is that head butts had no place in teen rough housing or muck about fighting and that kind of stuff took things to a whole different level.
 
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LibbyW

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My only experience of KFM is seeing it in batman and watching a display team.
I honestly quite approve of a style that holds pride in it's simplicity, I don't think there is enough of that about.
I'd like to see the in's and out's of their fundamentals so I could really gauge what was going on - i.e. contextual footwork, blocking and striking patterns - so on.
It kinda looks cool, I'd like to learn more :hungry:
L
 
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Shai Hulud

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I've also played with little side-to-side head butts from a tie-up position. You won't get knock out power, but you won't break your own face either.
If anything, they do a terrific job of making you look like an snake, or an eel. Or a snake or an eel in the middle of a seizure.
 
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Shai Hulud

Shai Hulud

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That's a nice point to make and remember, with both elbows those bbq-ribs are looking awfully open and appetising to all types of strikes.
It was a reminder that guard stances that address all possibilities are few and far between, if there are any at all. Prior to that I always kept my hands static except when striking or grappling. I know better now.
 

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