Aikido hate

[drop bear]

I'll try to explain it for you without using too many big words:-

play devil's advocate
to pretend to be against an idea which you agree with in order to make people discuss it in more detail and think about it more carefully

Really. you tried not to use big words but went for advocate?

I mean it doesnt matret if you were playing devils advocate or not. (Bugger it is windy) It is the response I was discussing.

 

[Ironbear24]

aikidoka would get schooled in a sparring match against even a newer MMA practitioner.

It all depends on the skill level and individual. If the aikidoka were to be experienced that would not happen. If they are new then it is anyone's guess.

 

[Steve]

It all depends on the skill level and individual. If the aikidoka were to be experienced that would not happen. If they are new then it is anyone's guess.

We just learned in another thread that an aikidoka is a senior student or expert. Otherwise they are akidoists. Or something.

 

[Ironbear24]

We just learned in another thread that an aikidoka is a senior student or expert. Otherwise they are akidoists. Or something.

Well in that case then no, they would school the new "MMAist" easily then. I don't understand why people have this attitude that just by simply being an MMA practitioner somehow makes just better than everyone else. If literally heard people say at one point that a "white belt MMA guy" can beat up a TDK black belt.

Because you know, MMA totally uses belts.

 

[Paul_D]

Aikido generally gets allot of hate from the MMA community because allot of aikidoka would get schooled in a sparring match against even a newer MMA practitioner.

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True, but that's more to do with the misunderstanding within the MMA community. Aikido isn't designed for sparring, or for scoring points in a sporting contest, hence when you put it into an environment that it is not designed to work in, it doesn't work in that environment. That shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. You can't saw a piece of wood in half with a screwdriver, doesn't mean we should all hate screwdrivers though.

 

[drop bear]

Well in that case then no, they would school the new "MMAist" easily then. I don't understand why people have this attitude that just by simply being an MMA practitioner somehow makes just better than everyone else. If literally heard people say at one point that a "white belt MMA guy" can beat up a TDK black belt.

Because you know, MMA totally uses belts.

Efficiency and resources pretty much.

First day is expert moves. experts do beginner moves.

And there is a greater push from more people to make MMA a viable fighting system.

 

[Steve]

True, but that's more to do with the misunderstanding within the MMA community. Aikido isn't designed for sparring, or for scoring points in a sporting contest, hence when you put it into an environment that it is not designed to work in, it doesn't work in that environment. That shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. You can't saw a piece of wood in half with a screwdriver, doesn't mean we should all hate screwdrivers though.

What is aikido designed for? I've asked this question several times, and only hear about more things it isn't.

 

[JP3]

Well, I would agree that fighting against a knife wielder requires good skill. It is not to be taken lightly. Any slight miscue can be fatal.

And another problem is that many arts don't seem to train much against knife attacks.

However, I was surprised at the number of times scores appeared to be made. It seemed as if only thrusting attacks were made and they had to be defended by arm throws and/or bars. That would cut down your options if true.

I just pointed out that aikido tournaments exist... I specifically did NOT vouch for their efficacy!

Those aikido tournaments are a rules-based structure, like any tournament... in other words, they are a game. In games, the knives don't have edges, at least not in that game, them's the rules boss.

But, unfortunately, games are not reality, so most of those dudes would, and I hate to say this about another aikido person trying their best to be legitimate... probably be bleeding out and wondering why. Not to say I wouldn't be lying there as well, I'd just not be at all confused by what had just happened.

Fight against a knife, get cut. End of tale. Maybe not dead-cut, but cut always. Unless the once in a lifetime universal continuum aligned in a perfect north-sough galactic axis spiral with purple snowflakes appearing in the out rim of galaxies, then maybe someone doesn't get cut. Pretty much any other time.

 

[oaktree]

What is aikido designed for? I've asked this question several times, and only hear about more things it isn't.

I think you will get many answers even if Ueshiba could talk at different times in his life he may give you different answers.

Interview with Morihei Ueshiba and Kisshomaru Ueshiba

 

[JP3]

I respect all MA styles that test their skill in sport format.

One day an Aikido friend Armando Flores and a Karate friend visited me. I told them that there was a local Karate tournament. All 3 of us put gloves on and went to competed in that tournament. Armando didn't understood Karate tournament rules and punched on his opponent's face so hard, drew some blood, and got disqualified in his 1st fight. In few days, my Aikido friend was kicked out of his Aikido Association. He then went to far east and trained his Aikido with top master. This is how I know that Aikido guys were not allowed to compete in tournament back in 1973.

Today my Aikido friend is "Sensei" now.

I think that Armando visited Oklahoma City, Windsong Dojo a couple years ago and I trained with him and visited with him. If I've got the right guy, you are correct, very neat guy and very skilled. Shoot, even if I've not got the right guy, skilled and neat guy, one can tell from his student interaction.

 

[Spinedoc]

What is aikido designed for? I've asked this question several times, and only hear about more things it isn't.

This is an interesting question. Aikido to me is designed for chaos. Here's what I mean by that. Aikido only works with a committed attack. Aikido practitioners ALWAYS, ALWAYS assume there are multiple attackers. That whoever is attacking has at least one friend if not more. We also ALWAYS assume that they have a weapon. We assume we are in, as one high ranking Sensei told me once, a "gang war".....

Aikido does not work well with one on one sparring/competition. If someone will not commit to an attack, I simply back up and won't even engage with them. If someone just jabs and tries to throw probing attacks, I simply back up and leave...I won't even try to do anything, not until they try to grab, rush, or step into an attack, otherwise it's not worth doing anything.

I've seen Aikido used 3 times in real life, all before I was even studying Aikido, and all with brutal effectiveness. I honestly didn't even know what it was until I started studying Aikido years ago, and went...ahhhh, that's what that was.

1. I was in the US Navy and was at a party, some guy was making out with a girl, when the girls boyfriend showed up...the first guy backed up, saying he didn't know she had a boyfriend, and he didn't want to fight....the boyfriend launched a punch at his face. All I saw was a blur, and the boyfriend hit the wall with his head down, and fall to the floor on his neck and head....not sure how hurt he was, but it was over like that. I know now, that he executed a tsuki kaitenage....

2. I was in a seedy bar with some friends, just after getting out of the Navy. We were playing pool, and a couple of tables over, there were some guys in their early 30's playing pool and hanging out. There were some older biker dudes there, and one of them was getting pretty drunk, he came over to the other guys tables and started making fun of them. They asked him to leave....one of them was pretty cocky and called him basically a filthy drunk.....he got pissed....grabbed a pool cue and swung at one of the other ones holding it like a baseball bat...again...flash, and the drunk guy was flying over a bar table knocking the chairs over. He got up, and at this point the bouncers were there and kicking them all out basically. I know now, that he executed an udekimenage on that guy....

3. The last time was a blend of Aikido w some other stuff. Was at a bar hanging out when I saw an argument break out...no idea what it was about, but this rather big guy grabbed a rather skinny younger guy by his shirt collar...bam....the skinny guy hit him with a technique and the guy screamed and dropped, and then he kneed him in the gut, and as the big guy leaned forward, slammed his head into an iron railing. Fight over. Again, bouncers all over it. Now, I know......it was a nikyo into a muy thai type knee strike to the abdomen, into a head slam.

Aikido works well for these types of situations...against another fighter who is trained and won't commit? It won't work well at all.

 

[ST1Doppelganger]

It all depends on the skill level and individual. If the aikidoka were to be experienced that would not happen. If they are new then it is anyone's guess.

I'd still put my money on a BJJ blue belt or a white belt with a few years of BJJ training. I'd also put my money on a few year kick boxer over most black belts in aikido during a sparring match.

Now on a side note most shodan aikido could probably handle themselves decently against a non trained street thug which is perfectly fine for most aikidoka.

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[ST1Doppelganger]

True, but that's more to do with the misunderstanding within the MMA community. Aikido isn't designed for sparring, or for scoring points in a sporting contest, hence when you put it into an environment that it is not designed to work in, it doesn't work in that environment. That shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. You can't saw a piece of wood in half with a screwdriver, doesn't mean we should all hate screwdrivers though.

I don't hate aikido I was just giving my opinion of why allot of MMA clown aikido. I actually currently study Aikido and know it has allot of concepts to offer if trained appropriately.

I also personally think the results would be worst for the aikidoka if it wasnt a sparring match and if it was no rule fight.


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[Steve]

Spinedoc, that video you posted in the other thread is very relevant here. It seems like, even within the Aikido community, there is a schism.

I love what Roy Dean says about a scientific method of rediscovering effectiveness. As he says in his video, a lot of people want socialization etc, but they don't want the uncomfortable reality of failure. YES! As an Aikidoka and a BJJ black belt, maybe he will not be written off as a BJJ or MMA fanboy and summarily dismissed.

 

[Steve]

I think you will get many answers even if Ueshiba could talk at different times in his life he may give you different answers.

Interview with Morihei Ueshiba and Kisshomaru Ueshiba

Quite an article. It does reinforce my belief that "Defense against Aikido" is called the "don't attack" defense.

Seriously, though, it appears that Aikido, at least in its later years, is a kind of ritualized physical activity, sharing much in common with Tai Chi. Meditative, spiritual and healthful, with a historical, martial base.

 

[Ironbear24]

I'd still put my money on a BJJ blue belt or a white belt with a few years of BJJ training. I'd also put my money on a few year kick boxer over most black belts in aikido during a sparring match.

Now on a side note most shodan aikido could probably handle themselves decently against a non trained street thug which is perfectly fine for most aikidoka.

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What a way to insult an art.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Instead of waiting for your opponent to come in toward you (conservative approach), you can use "arm drag" to drag your opponent around (aggressive approach),

1. if your opponent "yields" into you, you can

- borrow his force,
- drag him a bit faster,
- move in circle,
- give him all the space that he will need,
- press down on his neck, and
- take him down forward.

2. if your opponent "resists" against you, you can

- borrow his force,
- change your drag into push,
- pick up his leading leg,
- push down on his neck, and
- take him down backward.

This is a perfect Aikido strategy that fully make sense and combat effective.

 

[Buka]

That BJJ stuff? That Aikido Stuff? That Kickboxing stuff? That Karate stuff?

 

[Headhunter]

I'd still put my money on a BJJ blue belt or a white belt with a few years of BJJ training. I'd also put my money on a few year kick boxer over most black belts in aikido during a sparring match.

Now on a side note most shodan aikido could probably handle themselves decently against a non trained street thug which is perfectly fine for most aikidoka.

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Then you'd be risking your money since there's no guarantees in any fight. How many times must it be said for some people to understand it doesn't matter what your style is, it's the practitioner that matters.

 

[drop bear]

True, but that's more to do with the misunderstanding within the MMA community. Aikido isn't designed for sparring, or for scoring points in a sporting contest, hence when you put it into an environment that it is not designed to work in, it doesn't work in that environment. That shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. You can't saw a piece of wood in half with a screwdriver, doesn't mean we should all hate screwdrivers though.

Yeah. Identifying the right screw for aikodos screwdriver is the thing.

It seems to contradict its own ideas.