A few questions about JJ

[kehcorpz]

Hi, I have a few questions.

1) does traditional JJ include ANY techniques like kicks,punches,hand deflections OR does it all come down
to fighting on the ground?

2) how hard is JJ on the body? for example when your training partner performs an arm lock on you which is used to break the attacker's arm then does this cause pain? I mean how close are you to actually breaking your arm?
I have seen vids where locks were demonstrated and the guy who was being locked had tap out whenever it became too painful. This means that the guy who was performing the lock was actually causing pain.
To me this sounds pretty dangerous. I mean when you're already in a zone where you have to tap out then this means that it's already pretty painful.

What if for example your training partner is a jerk and he applies too much force and you seriously injure yourself?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hi, I have a few questions.

1) does traditional JJ include ANY techniques like kicks,punches,hand deflections OR does it all come down
to fighting on the ground?

2) how hard is JJ on the body? for example when your training partner performs an arm lock on you which is used to break the attacker's arm then does this cause pain? I mean how close are you to actually breaking your arm?
I have seen vids where locks were demonstrated and the guy who was being locked had tap out whenever it became too painful. This means that the guy who was performing the lock was actually causing pain.
To me this sounds pretty dangerous. I mean when you're already in a zone where you have to tap out then this means that it's already pretty painful.

What if for example your training partner is a jerk and he applies too much force and you seriously injure yourself?

When you say "traditional JJ", are you referring to Japanese JJ? If so, it doesn't look much like Brazilian JJ. It's also a fairly generic term. In general, it will include locks, pins, throws, strikes, etc.

And yes, in most cases, it hurts (NGA is a descendent from one form of JJ). When training, you learn where to stop, and the tapping out is how your partner lets you know you've gone far enough. Some folks train in that pain zone a lot. Others avoid it most of the time (we are somewhere between - we use the pain to train our pain tolerance for defense, but keep it low enough we can function the next day). Any realistic training will have pain. It will have injuries, even some occasional significant ones - in 30+ years of training, I have dislocated a toe, two thumbs (that would be the maximum number), numerous bruises, torn toenails, a bloody lip, a black eye, and a few relatively minor injuries to larger joints (elbows, knees, shoulders).

 

[kehcorpz]

I don't know the difference between japanese JJ and brazilian JJ. I guess I mean stuff like Gracie JJ.

But from what you said this isn't suitable for me. I already have issues with various joints. Such a kind of training would likely mess me up even more.

Also if JJ only teaches you how to fight on the ground then it's not complete. Why does it not include arm deflections and stuff you can do in a standing position?

 

[Kickboxer101]

I don't know the difference between japanese JJ and brazilian JJ. I guess I mean stuff like Gracie JJ.

But from what you said this isn't suitable for me. I already have issues with various joints. Such a kind of training would likely mess me up even more.

Also if JJ only teaches you how to fight on the ground then it's not complete. Why does it not include arm deflections and stuff you can do in a standing position?

No martial art is right for you take up gaming that seems to be more your area than anything physical

 

[Tez3]

 

[frank raud]

What if for example your training partner is a jerk and he applies too much force and you seriously injure yourself?

If your partner is a jerk and applies too much force, HE will seriously injure you. How is this different than an art where they punch and kick. If your partner is a jerk and kicks you too hard, will he not injure you?

 

[frank raud]

Hi, I have a few questions.

1) does traditional JJ include ANY techniques like kicks,punches,hand deflections OR does it all come down
to fighting on the ground?

2) how hard is JJ on the body? for example when your training partner performs an arm lock on you which is used to break the attacker's arm then does this cause pain? I mean how close are you to actually breaking your arm?
I have seen vids where locks were demonstrated and the guy who was being locked had tap out whenever it became too painful. This means that the guy who was performing the lock was actually causing pain.
To me this sounds pretty dangerous. I mean when you're already in a zone where you have to tap out then this means that it's already pretty painful.

What if for example your training partner is a jerk and he applies too much force and you seriously injure yourself?

Please don't waste your time looking at jiu jitsu or judo. They are too expensive, you have to buy fancy uniforms and you will probably have to sign a long term contract.

 

[JR 137]

Please don't waste your time looking at jiu jitsu or judo. They are too expensive, you have to buy fancy uniforms and you will probably have to sign a long term contract.

And they're unrealistic in that they're purely for competition.

 

[PiedmontChun]

The OP has been a bit of a troll on the Wing Chun section of MT lately, posting vids there and making overly simplistic remarks / criticisms. Seems to me he is a young guy stuck in his own mind trying to figure out what art to choose and where to train, but has not taken the plunge to even observe a class or take an actual class.

 

[Kickboxer101]

The OP has been a bit of a troll on the Wing Chun section of MT lately, posting vids there and making overly simplistic remarks / criticisms. Seems to me he is a young guy stuck in his own mind trying to figure out what art to choose and where to train, but has not taken the plunge to even observe a class or take an actual class.

That's the polite way of saying it yeah apart from the fact I don't think he has any intentions of starting he just enjoys thinking he knows it all from his extenisve training under grandmaster YouTube

 

[Flatfish]

Yeah you need to give up.......most MA have joint locks.....and all MA hurt when training....sorry but it's a fact that it does not feel good when you get punched or kicked in the face or if you get thrown on the ground....if you can't deal with that, go buy some body armor or wrap yourself in pillows, move on with your life and forget MA

 

[oaktree]

Hi, I have a few questions.

1) does traditional JJ include ANY techniques like kicks,punches,hand deflections OR does it all come down
to fighting on the ground?

2) how hard is JJ on the body? for example when your training partner performs an arm lock on you which is used to break the attacker's arm then does this cause pain? I mean how close are you to actually breaking your arm?
I have seen vids where locks were demonstrated and the guy who was being locked had tap out whenever it became too painful. This means that the guy who was performing the lock was actually causing pain.
To me this sounds pretty dangerous. I mean when you're already in a zone where you have to tap out then this means that it's already pretty painful.

What if for example your training partner is a jerk and he applies too much force and you seriously injure yourself?

Yes traditional Japanese jujutsu has strikes and what type and how much emphasis and the reason for them depends on the ryuha.
Deflections, parry, blocks what not again, depends on the ryuha. Fighting on the ground depends what you mean, most classical styles do not have you rolling on the ground like ufc as it would be some what difficult and impractical in the settings these arts come from.
How hard Japanese jujutsu is on the body I guess depends on your ukemi and how tori is. You are learning a system that was taught to people who relied on it on the battlefield if they were without a weapon in some cases or someone trying to really hurt them so a sense of realism does exist.
Your partner is going to put pressure on your joint it will hurt to a degree, but understand he is learning the correct leverage, angle, pressure, and technique needed to submit uke, tapping is the universal sign of your limit and a mutual respect for each other to not put any more pressure or release the lock. There is always a risk in doing martial arts, some guys in class are more aggressive then others and if you have concerns talk to your class mate or teacher

 

[JR 137]

....if you can't deal with that, go buy some body armor or wrap yourself in pillows, move on with your life and forget MA

Bubble wrap would be so much more fun. For everyone.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Bubble wrap would be so much more fun. For everyone.

Yet another post that makes me wish to be able to apply more than one rating.

 

[drop bear]

Japanese jujitsu can look a bit like judo and a bit like akido depending on the type of instructor.

The striking is karate ish.

 

[Chris Parker]

Japanese jujitsu can look a bit like judo and a bit like akido depending on the type of instructor.

The striking is karate ish.

Er… huh? Your (highly questionable) information comes from where, exactly? Cause… no.

 

[drop bear]

Er… huh? Your (highly questionable) information comes from where, exactly? Cause… no.

I am my own source anecdotally. Lol wait I am not you.

I trained here for five years.
Australian JiuJitsu Judo & Chinese Boxing Federation of Instructors

If you are suggesting a more traditional jjj there probably is. But from what I have seen of it it trades off effectiveness for authenticity.

 

[Chris Parker]

I am my own source anecdotally. Lol wait I am not you.

You do realise that every time you say that, it just shows that you don't know how to follow a simple argument method, yeah? And that, well, you're a petty soul who can't let things go?

For the record, the idea of being your own source is covered in you saying what you trained in… so you are your own source for that…

I trained here for five years.
Australian JiuJitsu Judo & Chinese Boxing Federation of Instructors

Barry Bradshaw? Hmm, that's literally 5 minutes down the road from me… I visited him about 10 years ago or so to see what he's about, and, well… no. Not a good source at all. I mean, he's certainly no Judan in Judo… the rest of his ranking is highly suspect in terms of where it comes from (likely from Bradshaw himself), the description of him as being "one of the first All-Australian Internationally recognised 10th Dans" (what on earth does that mean? "All-Australian"? Huh? And 10th Dan in what, exactly?), the lack of any specificity as to the school of jujutsu (the spelling alone not engendering confidence), and more all add up to some quite concerning impressions…

There are a number of groups affiliated with the above group… few of which have much positive about them… such as the Monash University Jiu-Jitsu Club (http://jiujitsu.org.au/monash/about.html)… who refer to their style name as "Tai Jitsu Ryu" (which is just bizarre, an indicative of absolutely no understanding of the culture, or of being in any way close to anything authentically Japanese), have obviously no clue about the structure of martial arts (saying that the students study the "more advanced techniques of… aiki-ju-jitsu, judo-do (?)". Additionally, the form of Judo being taught is not Kodokan, but what they're referring to as Kawaishi Judo (Kawaishi Mikinosuke was an early pioneer in European Judo, especially in France… not sure of any actual connection to Australia…)

One thing that interests me, though, is that all of Barry's affiliated schools are here in Melbourne (well, the Eastern suburbs, at least)… I'm assuming you were living down here then?

If you are suggesting a more traditional jjj there probably is.

Well, being actually Japanese would be a good start, if you're going to start claiming to know what Japanese Jujutsu is like… because you're description is relatively accurate for modern, Western founded forms of "jujitsu" and similar… but does not bear much resemblance to actual Japanese forms.

But from what I have seen of it it trades off effectiveness for authenticity.

I'd ask what you've actually seen… and remind you that "effectiveness" is not a single sided description… effectiveness depends entirely on the context. And, frankly, you don't have the knowledge, experience, or understanding to grasp what different contexts require… that much you've proven multiple times over your posts here (see! You are your own source again!).

 

[drop bear]

You do realise that every time you say that, it just shows that you don't know how to follow a simple argument method, yeah? And that, well, you're a petty soul who can't let things go?

For the record, the idea of being your own source is covered in you saying what you trained in… so you are your own source for that…



Barry Bradshaw? Hmm, that's literally 5 minutes down the road from me… I visited him about 10 years ago or so to see what he's about, and, well… no. Not a good source at all. I mean, he's certainly no Judan in Judo… the rest of his ranking is highly suspect in terms of where it comes from (likely from Bradshaw himself), the description of him as being "one of the first All-Australian Internationally recognised 10th Dans" (what on earth does that mean? "All-Australian"? Huh? And 10th Dan in what, exactly?), the lack of any specificity as to the school of jujutsu (the spelling alone not engendering confidence), and more all add up to some quite concerning impressions…

There are a number of groups affiliated with the above group… few of which have much positive about them… such as the Monash University Jiu-Jitsu Club (http://jiujitsu.org.au/monash/about.html)… who refer to their style name as "Tai Jitsu Ryu" (which is just bizarre, an indicative of absolutely no understanding of the culture, or of being in any way close to anything authentically Japanese), have obviously no clue about the structure of martial arts (saying that the students study the "more advanced techniques of… aiki-ju-jitsu, judo-do (?)". Additionally, the form of Judo being taught is not Kodokan, but what they're referring to as Kawaishi Judo (Kawaishi Mikinosuke was an early pioneer in European Judo, especially in France… not sure of any actual connection to Australia…)

One thing that interests me, though, is that all of Barry's affiliated schools are here in Melbourne (well, the Eastern suburbs, at least)… I'm assuming you were living down here then?



Well, being actually Japanese would be a good start, if you're going to start claiming to know what Japanese Jujutsu is like… because you're description is relatively accurate for modern, Western founded forms of "jujitsu" and similar… but does not bear much resemblance to actual Japanese forms.



I'd ask what you've actually seen… and remind you that "effectiveness" is not a single sided description… effectiveness depends entirely on the context. And, frankly, you don't have the knowledge, experience, or understanding to grasp what different contexts require… that much you've proven multiple times over your posts here (see! You are your own source again!).

You get seriously weird about this linage thing don't you?

 

[Chris Parker]

That's what you take out of that? You make a comment about what "Japanese Jujutsu" is like, with no accuracy at all, due to your lack of exposure to the actual subject, I point that out, and you think I'm being "weird about this lineage thing"?!?

Dude. You might as well be telling people that all French cuisine is thin, fried segments of potatoes, because all you've ever had are French Fries… and then wonder why cordon bleu chefs disagree and correct your mistakes. That's the equivalent here.