Daito-ryu wrist locks

Discussion in 'Jujutsu / Judo' started by lifelongstudent1, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. lifelongstudent1

    lifelongstudent1 White Belt

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    Hello, I am thinking of taking up Daito-ryu Jujitsu and was wondering if there is a list somewhere of the names of the wrist locks, or quality book, so I can start learning them. I looked online but search not pulling anything in. Thanks
     
  2. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    I would suggest learning how to do the techniques in a class, and get a book as a supplement, rather than trying to teach yourself from a book, than having to be taught the proper way in class. Daito-ryu is a subtle art, much of what makes it work won't be in a book.
     
  3. lifelongstudent1

    lifelongstudent1 White Belt

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    Let me be clear on this, I am taking the classes and learning proper technique, I am looking for book or online list to learn out of class, don't need the techniques, I need a pic and name, to learn the name of the technique quicker, to master the technique will take years, I know that.
     
  4. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    Which branch of Daito ryu? Who Is the head instructor? Daito ryu is a commonly misused name in martial arts. No sense recommending something from the main line, if that is not what you are studying.
     
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  5. lifelongstudent1

    lifelongstudent1 White Belt

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    Yamibushi ryu
     
  6. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    Ask your instructor first (senior students...), if you didn't yet.
    Probably they know, and they can recommend something coherent with your practice.
    You know, there are different names for the same, different things under the same name...
     
  7. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Hmm… there's a few things to look at here…

    No. For one thing, Daito-ryu isn't really about the particular wrist locks, as that is really the most superficial way to look at the art, it's about the way the art is applied, stemming from a core philosophical ideal, and expressed through the waza of the ryu-ha. As a result, it's the kata that you'll find some material on, not individual wrist locks… but even then you're going to have some issues.

    Daito-ryu is a very elaborate system, with various lines having large and small differences in the way they express the methods of the system, and having large or small differences in the syllabus itself… with some having lists of over 3,000 separate waza (kata). Where they all start, however, is with a document/section known as the Hiden Mokuroku… which is a list of 118 basic techniques (note: not as in "this is a wrist lock, this is a punch", instead, 118 different kata… which, in Japanese arts, are short sequences trained paired with an attacker and defender)… which are then trained in a range of different ways (both standing, both kneeling, one standing one kneeling), as well as with different tactical approaches… which brings us to the next thing to be aware of.

    There's no such thing as Daito-ryu jujitsu.

    Daito-ryu is most often described as "aikijutsu", however even that's fairly limiting when it comes to the art itself. In many lines, the methods are learnt in three formats… firstly, as a "jujutsu" approach… which relies fairly heavily on striking in order to counter grabs, and provide opportunities to apply restraining holds, locks etc… then an "aikijujutsu" approach, where the striking is reduced, and there is a higher emphasis on applying "aiki" timing… and finally as "aikijutsu", where the striking is almost non-existent, and the techniques rely almost completely on aiki timing. This means that the 118 waza required to learn in the first section actually becomes 1,062 different combative expressions…

    The Hiden Mokuroku, for the record, is most commonly what is required to attain Shodan, by the way.

    Honestly, you're better off making your own notes. Yes, there are books out there, and yes, there are videos out there… but, unless it's your particular line, the differences may be big, or almost non-existent… so the more important question is Franks:

    Personally, I'd say that Daito-ryu is often cited with little basis, and aikijutsu is often misapplied (or applied without basis)… but it's a small distinction…

    Er… so… are you aiming to study Daito-ryu or Yamabushi-ryu? They're not the same thing, you know… Daito-ryu is a Japanese art, likely founded in the late 19th Century by Sokaku Takeda, with a very koryu-like structure and format, involving a large range of unarmed methods, as well as some weaponry aspects (depending on the line itself)… Yamabushi-ryu is a modern, Western art, developed in about 1980, with almost no mention of where the methods come from, but likely not anything at all to do with Daito-ryu…

    If this is the "Yamabushi-ryu" you're talking about (Yamabushi Ryu), the list of issues, errors, and basic misunderstandings in, well, everything to do with Japanese martial arts, history, and so on would have me avoiding them completely. If you want something in anyway authentic, this is not the place…

    This is assuming that you're meaning "Yamabushi-ryu", rather than "yamibushi-ryu", as I couldn't find anything on that one…
     
  8. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

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    I'm a little confused. Your first post in this thread you say "Hello, I am thinking of taking up Daito-ryu Jujitsu". But in post #3 you say "Let me be clear on this, I am taking the classes and learning proper technique, I am looking for book or online list to learn out of class". Perhaps I'm missing something?
     
  9. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    And then names a different system that they're apparently learning… lots of questions here…
     
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Someone asks you the time and you tell them how to make a watch.
     
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    And someone asks you. And you give. Broken sentences with little context. Or logic. But you do MMA. So that's all that works. If it's done the same way. And proof doesn't exist.

    Do you really want to pursue into areas you clearly don't have a clue about?
     
  12. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You didn't understand the logic or the context?

    Meh fair enough.
     
  13. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Since I get the feeling you won't read the long response in its entirety, going to reiterate a part of it. It would be best to make your own notes of it if your instructor doesn't have any, since notes or a book you may find online may not be entirely accurate, and even if they are they may not be accurate for your dojo.
     
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  14. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    You're not reading again.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    This is context.
     
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Er… even that sentence doesn't have any context…
     
  17. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Black Belt

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    I think people might be over thinking this one a bit. To be fair, it is hard to tell from the OP if he is currently training or getting ready to start.

    However, I think all he is looking for is the names of techniques so that he can keep what he is learning straight in his head. That way when he hears "kote hineri", he knows what it refers to, or when he sees someone perform a technique, even if he doesn't know the subtleties of how to perform it properly himself, he has a framework to classify it, and probably place it into a rank chart/outline that he might get from his instructor: "hey, that guy just did ude garami. I need to know that for Orange belt...", or something like that.

    Perhaps I am missing something, but I think that is all the OP is looking for.
     
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  18. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Sure… but each different system will have their own terminology… the terms used in my system are different to the ones used in another… or, when the same term, the technique being referred to is different. So, until we get some answers to the questions asked, there's no way we could provide anything in the first place.
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    This. And your instructor will be able to point you toward a book or video set that best supports the way he teaches.
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If he's not already familiar with the movements, it seems unlikely pictures in a book will help him identify what he sees later. A video series might, since he can see the movements. Of course, he'd likely need one that's closely related to how the techniques are performed at his target school, because a relatively new student won't easily recognize the similarities between different approaches.123
     

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