Your thoughts on these locks?

[Gerry Seymour]

How can you control your opponent's structure if you only control his wrist? IMO, the elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, ... are more effective.

Even the finger lock can be more effective than the wrist lock.

Two answers to this:

1. You break and control the structure on entry, so the lock is a result of what came before (positioning, strikes, off-balancing, etc.).

2. Conjunctive locking, where the lock on the wrist also puts the elbow in a partly locked position, which puts the shoulder in a partly locked position, and so forth.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

 

[dunc]

I'm sorry but he's performing all the wrist locks & finger locks in a suboptimal way, his footwork is non-existent & his opponent has far too many openings to counter

 

[drop bear]

I'm sorry but he's performing all the wrist locks & finger locks in a suboptimal way, his footwork is non-existent & his opponent has far too many openings to counter

And i still don't get the energy business. Which seems to be a term for crank the lock.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

The original video was sent by a taiji friend.

I located and posted a few more of his videos here as I wondered what people would think.

The guy demonstrating the locks is being promoted by the Martial Man who seems to be some kind of Youtube content creator. They are offering opportunities to study with main wrist-lock man and the course of study is expensive 💲

His use of the word energy seems to cause people to start thinking along mystical and magical lines, but I suspect this is one of his main intentions.

I did try listening to an interview with him and soon stopped as it was difficult to follow his muddled way of thinking. There was a lot of spiritual talk being used in an attempt to sound profound and I had to switch it off because it was getting a bit boring.

The videos have inspired a lot of discussion here and it was interesting to hear your viewpoints - so thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts 🙏

 

[marvin8]

I agree and there's nothing wrong with that because Rokas is still learning how to apply his Aikido. My personal thoughts are that Rokas would learn faster if he were to try to apply his Aikido on someone who may not be as skilled in sensing what is happening. If I were him I would first try Aikido on someone who is a beginner in MMA. The reason I say this is because his Aikido skills are beginner level for application. It would give him more chances of what it feels like when it works, which is what he needs now.

What he's getting now is what it feels like when it's countered. Normally this isn't a bad thing, but for Roka it is, because he's experiencing this without knowing what it feels like when the Aikido technique works. That part he's still trying to get. The problem is that he's a beginner in Aikido trying to use Aikido with others who have advanced fighting skills. His sparring partner should match his Aikido skills. It shouldn't be with someone who can tell what he's trying to do with the slightest weight shift.

I think his Aikido would grow faster if he used a sparring partner that matched his Aikdo skills. A beginner with good skills would be better for him.

Jesse Enkamp
Jun 25, 2023

I survived Aikido vs Karate training (real sparring) with Leo Tamaki. People say Aikido techniques don't work in MMA or street fight. But this martial arts expert reveals the truth!

 

[Flying Crane]

Jesse Enkamp
Jun 25, 2023

I survived Aikido vs Karate training (real sparring) with Leo Tamaki. People say Aikido techniques don't work in MMA or street fight. But this martial arts expert reveals the truth!

Interesting video. I just take issue with his early comment that joint locks only work on kids and the unskilled beginner. I would disagree with that.

 

[marvin8]

Interesting video. I just take issue with his early comment that joint locks only work on kids and the unskilled beginner. I would disagree with that.

Well ... he is saying joint locks work, however not without injuring people (which may be arguable). At 1:58,

You cannot control somebody without causing damage. Except if you have very, very high level and the guy is very much a beginner. That is why people who say Aikido is about controlling people without injuring them, are people who never confronted to violence.

 

[drop bear]

Jesse Enkamp
Jun 25, 2023

I survived Aikido vs Karate training (real sparring) with Leo Tamaki. People say Aikido techniques don't work in MMA or street fight. But this martial arts expert reveals the truth!

He had to give that guy a lot more gifts than he gave Rokus.

This is a different Jesse Enkamp.

 

[drop bear]

That's why the arm wrap is so important.

Wrist locks generally are about attacking the elbows.

This one is better.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=525209585229687

He attacks the elbow and pins it to their body.

 

[marvin8]

Jesse Enkamp
Jun 25, 2023

I survived Aikido vs Karate training (real sparring) with Leo Tamaki. People say Aikido techniques don't work in MMA or street fight. But this martial arts expert reveals the truth!

Martial Arts Journey
Jun 26, 2023

Jesse Enkamp the Karate Nerd recently fought against Aikido master Leo Tamaki. Here are my thoughts about their exchange.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He had to give that guy a lot more gifts than he gave Rokus.

This is a different Jesse Enkamp.

Nah.. He wanted to see what would happen if I did this. That's different than giving gifts. But even though those attacks were light, he still had trouble with them. My guess is that the strikes need a certain level of commitment. The techniques don't work well against half committed strikes. This is the same with Jow Ga Kung Fu., and is the reason I always say that I like brawlers, because brawlers are fully committed. They only have 2 directions: Forward and Backwards ,and they hate the backwards option. The more force put into a strike, the more force I have to use against my opponent and the less he will be able to resist the technique.

Example, kicking under a punch works well when the person is all in on that punch. When they are trying to hit you with all they have, then kick them under the punch. When the person is striking with less than 30% then that kick becomes less effective.

If the guy knows how to use his techniques, then my guess is that he needed more energy into the kick.

In Rokas case. He's using the incorrect timing. He's either trying to move in when his opponent has both feet on the ground or he's trying to move in after an attack has landed. This the wrong timing for 90% of anything fighting related.

Watch the Rokas video in slow motion and you'll see how bad Roka's timing was.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Martial Arts Journey
Jun 26, 2023

Jesse Enkamp the Karate Nerd recently fought against Aikido master Leo Tamaki. Here are my thoughts about their exchange.

He won't be functional in Aikido if he doesn't trust the techniques. One of the hardest things I had to get Jow Ga students to do is to trust the technique. Don't change it. Just do do it. If it works, then you know you got the right timing and application of the technique. If it doesn't work, then you know you screwed up and more thought needs to be given to what happened.

Trusting the technique doesn't mean that everything will workout, but you will get the best understanding of a technique regardless of if you are successful or not. If you don't trust the technique, then you are skewing things in a bad way. You are adding more variables than necessary. When you don't trust the technique, you then create 2 problems:
Problem 1: Does the technique work? What am I doing wrong?
Problem 2: Does my variation work? What am I doing wrong?

From there it goes into a rabbit hole of possibilities and questions. The irony is that working variations only occur when you understand how the original works. If you don't understand how the original works, then the variation is based on that incorrect understanding of a technique.

If my understanding of Technique 1 is incorrect, then any variation of Technique 1 will also be incorrect. It's just a long way to learn something .

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

to trust the technique.

What can be a technique that you don't trust?

 

[drop bear]

Nah.. He wanted to see what would happen if I did this. That's different than giving gifts. But even though those attacks were light, he still had trouble with them. My guess is that the strikes need a certain level of commitment. The techniques don't work well against half committed strikes. This is the same with Jow Ga Kung Fu., and is the reason I always say that I like brawlers, because brawlers are fully committed. They only have 2 directions: Forward and Backwards ,and they hate the backwards option. The more force put into a strike, the more force I have to use against my opponent and the less he will be able to resist the technique.

Example, kicking under a punch works well when the person is all in on that punch. When they are trying to hit you with all they have, then kick them under the punch. When the person is striking with less than 30% then that kick becomes less effective.

If the guy knows how to use his techniques, then my guess is that he needed more energy into the kick.

In Rokas case. He's using the incorrect timing. He's either trying to move in when his opponent has both feet on the ground or he's trying to move in after an attack has landed. This the wrong timing for 90% of anything fighting related.

Watch the Rokas video in slow motion and you'll see how bad Roka's timing was.

If he had committed to those attacks. He would have just bashed the guy.

 

[marvin8]

Nah.. He wanted to see what would happen if I did this. That's different than giving gifts. But even though those attacks were light, he still had trouble with them. My guess is that the strikes need a certain level of commitment. The techniques don't work well against half committed strikes. This is the same with Jow Ga Kung Fu., and is the reason I always say that I like brawlers, because brawlers are fully committed. They only have 2 directions: Forward and Backwards ,and they hate the backwards option. The more force put into a strike, the more force I have to use against my opponent and the less he will be able to resist the technique.

Example, kicking under a punch works well when the person is all in on that punch. When they are trying to hit you with all they have, then kick them under the punch. When the person is striking with less than 30% then that kick becomes less effective.

If the guy knows how to use his techniques, then my guess is that he needed more energy into the kick.

In Rokas case. He's using the incorrect timing. He's either trying to move in when his opponent has both feet on the ground or he's trying to move in after an attack has landed. This the wrong timing for 90% of anything fighting related.

Watch the Rokas video in slow motion and you'll see how bad Roka's timing was.

If he had committed to those attacks. He would have just bashed the guy.

Yes, I don't believe it would make a difference. The problem is Rokas doesn't lead his opponent, control the center and his timing is off (too late).

Aikido Extensions by Bruce Bookman. In this "Freestyle Training," I believe Bruce's control and timing is better, although not as alive.

 

[drop bear]

Yes, I don't believe it would make a difference. The problem is Rokas doesn't lead his opponent, control the center and his timing is off (too late).

Aikido Extensions by Bruce Bookman. In this "Freestyle Training," I believe Bruce's control and timing is better, although not as alive.

Everybody suffers from garbage clinch work. Rokus, this guy, that other dude. And without that ability to control the opponent and isolate that arm. They will never be able to to have functional joint lock attacks.

They are all doing it wrong.

So look at the arm positions. See how they get trapped and extended away from the body. This is basically your opportunity to shoot for a wrist.


Underhook.

Two on one russian.

Arm drag.

These are pretty much going to be your best ways to secure an arm to attack the wrist.

Now with wrestling the always have something better to go for. So you never see that wrist lock.

 

[drop bear]

If you attempt to catch punches or paw at people's wrists you will encounter two major problems.

One.
You will get punched in the face, a lot.

You are dropping your hand inside of their range. You can't see their punches from there and you are not punching them back.

Two.
You will wind up reaching for their hand. So if you do grab the thing you have no mechanical advantage to do anything with it.

Now none of this is rocket surgery. Is is simple to test. But because of the boat load of misinformation it gets lost in the confusion.

 

[marvin8]

Everybody suffers from garbage clinch work. Rokus, this guy, that other dude. And without that ability to control the opponent and isolate that arm. They will never be able to to have functional joint lock attacks.

They are all doing it wrong.

So look at the arm positions. See how they get trapped and extended away from the body. This is basically your opportunity to shoot for a wrist.


Underhook.

Two on one russian.

Arm drag.

These are pretty much going to be your best ways to secure an arm to attack the wrist.

Now with wrestling the always have something better to go for. So you never see that wrist lock.

Well ... you are back to the clinch, which JowGaWolf said is a wrestling engine rather than aikido. I agree with you that there may be better alternatives from the clinch than trying to use aikido techniques.

In the "Aikido's Six Most Effective Fighting Techniques" video I posted, Aikido techniques are performed without entering the clinch. They're similar in control and timing to what Bookman is doing. At :38, one example is Gedan-ate:

https://imgur.com/5DE9tjo

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

What can be a technique that you don't trust?

A wrist lock.