Thoughts on "pop locks"

Christopher Adamchek

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We typically think of locks as increasing hold and control until the desired affect is met such as straining, snapping, tapping out etc.

But locks can hard to set up an maintain until the desired affect is met under real resistance.
And why aikido like styles can get blow back for their techniques
BJJ styles systems tend to be better set ups to ensure the lock.
Karate like style will sometime get a full or half lock and transition to striking (also a useful strategy)
Kali like systems is where ive seen this the most is the use of what i describe to my students as a "pop lock" where the strategy is a quick snap of control to the joint - if it works to control can be continued as a standard lock or if there is decent resistance or in the chaos it just didnt work great it can be quickly abandoned (hopefully and likely still did some damage to the joint) and continue with the fight. Some locks lend themselves better to being pop locks but many locks can be used with the pop lock mentality. Pop locks can also be advantageous for doing a lock at a wide or further range than a tight controlling lock.

Your thoughts and use of pop locks?
 

JP3

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I never called them pop locks, but that's how I typically perform my aikido locks when moving at some speed. If they are "there" both people know it really quick and you "could" continue until... let's just call it conclusion, but as happens often the opponenet feels it coming on and they avert that direction/line/circle and go somewhere else. Knowing in advance where the escapes from the locks "live" is part of gaining proficiency IMO.

Got to be careful with this stuff "at speed" though. It really does take less than one thinks to deliver real lasting injury, even without meaning to do so.
 

Danny T

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I've always used and teach locks to be performed with an explosive 'snap' action. It's usually done with far more control in training to prevent injuries.
 

drop bear

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I dont do them and have a personal hatred of spazzy locking techniques.

If you can't do the lock with enough control so as to not hurt your partner. Don't do the lock.

I do pop locks, wist locks, standing arm bars rolling, wrestling and in MMA. But I accept they are going to be escaped more easily if I give the guy guy time to tap. Which is also standard for people who do heel hooks. Which if you crank them on cripple people.

And my view on the matter is Boo Hoo. The guy got out. I just have to be better. I just have to transition to something else. I just have to secure my position or change my timing up so it works.

And this is the same with anything. If I crack a person super hard in the face. My technique is more successful. Head kicks are a good example. Quite often I will head kick a guy and the brush it off because I am not trying to kill them with it. But then I am at a disadvantage because they can come in easily. The solution be better. Recover faster.

Ultimately pop locks suck, they cause injuries but they are rarely fight ending.
 

JowGaWolf

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I've always used and teach locks to be performed with an explosive 'snap' action. It's usually done with far more control in training to prevent injuries.
This is how I understand locks. The idea was to quickly move into the lock which damages that joint. It was to be applied before resistance can take full effect and it was done with the understanding that ligament, tendon, and joint damage would occur, so in training it's done with control because of that. If my goal is to apply a wrist lock, I want it to be as quick and brutal as possible. Anything else less than that gives my attacker time to escape.

Just had a light bulb moment about a Jow Ga technique will typing my response here and finally figured out the application of it. And now have a clue to another. It was one of those moments when you aren't thinking about the technique, but something else leads to it. I was actually looking for a video that shows the explosive snap that you are talking about. Came across this and and was like Ohhhhhhhhhh. That technique isn't a blocking one. I just ran through two advance techniques in Jow Ga that made absolutely no sense to me before today. Now I got.. It took me about 7 or 8 years to figure that out. lol.

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JowGaWolf

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Got to be careful with this stuff "at speed" though. It really does take less than one thinks to deliver real lasting injury, even without meaning to do so.
no matter how many time people say this there is always one who won't believe it and will end up injuring their partner.
 

JowGaWolf

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I dont do them and have a personal hatred of spazzy locking techniques.

If you can't do the lock with enough control so as to not hurt your partner. Don't do the lock.

I do pop locks, wist locks, standing arm bars rolling, wrestling and in MMA. But I accept they are going to be escaped more easily if I give the guy guy time to tap. Which is also standard for people who do heel hooks. Which if you crank them on cripple people.

And my view on the matter is Boo Hoo. The guy got out. I just have to be better. I just have to transition to something else. I just have to secure my position or change my timing up so it works.

And this is the same with anything. If I crack a person super hard in the face. My technique is more successful. Head kicks are a good example. Quite often I will head kick a guy and the brush it off because I am not trying to kill them with it. But then I am at a disadvantage because they can come in easily. The solution be better. Recover faster.

Ultimately pop locks suck, they cause injuries but they are rarely fight ending.
I think locks are like everything else. It's all about timing and choosing the correct lock at that time. We see in BJJ how they go for one lock, it doesn't work because timing was off. It's either too late, to early, not in the right position, and when that happens it's like you stated, miss one lock then go for another.

I know in kung fu a missed lock can be a big deal. If I mess one up then I could end up positioning myself to eat a big punch or get hit with a big takedown.
 

JP3

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I just ran through two advance techniques in Jow Ga that made absolutely no sense to me before today. Now I got.. It took me about 7 or 8 years to figure that out. lol./QUOTE]
I find the same things in aikido/judo every once in a while. You do it, o it, do it, do it for years and years and then something else comes by and mentally bumps into you at the right time... injecting a slightly different concept and "Huh! That's why... I've been thinking about this wrong for..."
 

JP3

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no matter how many time people say this there is always one who won't believe it and will end up injuring their partner.

Yup. Sometimes when this has happened or even when it is happening right there on the mat in front of me before I can get over there... I think that some folks enjoy the power for an instant. They might feel bad later... but I've had small/petite women in class seriously damage a big guy training partner's wrist because they.. I guess... "got into it?" Guys do it to each oter all the time, too, of course. It's a thing.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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no matter how many time people say this there is always one who won't believe it and will end up injuring their partner.
It's not always that they don't believe it. It's either a misunderstanding of what 'slow' means (to me it means engaging, stopping well before you've got it, and slowly pushing for a lot of drills/locks. For someone else who doesn't know better they can hear slow and think 'okay everything fluid but dial it back to 80% speed'), or they get flustered, and when new people get flustered they tend to try speeding up or making random movements.
 

Hanzou

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We typically think of locks as increasing hold and control until the desired affect is met such as straining, snapping, tapping out etc.

But locks can hard to set up an maintain until the desired affect is met under real resistance.
And why aikido like styles can get blow back for their techniques
BJJ styles systems tend to be better set ups to ensure the lock.
Karate like style will sometime get a full or half lock and transition to striking (also a useful strategy)
Kali like systems is where ive seen this the most is the use of what i describe to my students as a "pop lock" where the strategy is a quick snap of control to the joint - if it works to control can be continued as a standard lock or if there is decent resistance or in the chaos it just didnt work great it can be quickly abandoned (hopefully and likely still did some damage to the joint) and continue with the fight. Some locks lend themselves better to being pop locks but many locks can be used with the pop lock mentality. Pop locks can also be advantageous for doing a lock at a wide or further range than a tight controlling lock.

Your thoughts and use of pop locks?

In BJJ, you control the person first, then apply the lock. Locks are sort of like levers, you can apply more pressure at your desired pace until your opponent submits. If they don't submit you can break the joint. There's no need to "pop" the lock because regardless you have the dominant position and control, so if you can't get that lock off, you should easily be able to move to another one. This allows Bjj practitioners to practice the locks safely and under fairly realistic pressure. It also helps avoid possible legal BS, because snapping limbs willy nilly can get you in a world of trouble.
 

JP3

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" ...because snapping limbs willy nilly can get you in a world of trouble."

Sorry... I almost sprayed my drink out my nose for some reason when reading the end of the post.... Indeed. That IS true! Who woulda thunk it... lol...

Ignore me... it's time to go eat.
 
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