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[Ahriman]

I simply prefer to be ready for nothing for years to being unprepared for the moment it'd be important. I do make mistakes as I'm a human, but I try to avoid it. There always will be a criminal section of humanity and their percentage won't make their presence more or less relevant. They are those who may kill or maim you or others if you don't care. The time intervals between confrontations are a matter of caution and luck, and as I said before, I don't like relying on luck.
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And I don't trust humans.

Edited to add: morph4me, I like your car analogue much. Looking both ways is so natural that most don't even recognise it, but it's just as well a sign of "paranoia" as being cautious with strangers. After all, if everyone would be nice people following the laws then you shouldn't have to check for reckless drivers. Or for possible attackers.

 

[MJS]

Great replies everyone!! Keep 'em coming!

A few things I'd loke to comment on.

1) Regarding my OP. Yes, in some cases, being in close proximity with others is unavoidable. Go to a concert, movie, fair, the mall during a holiday season, NYC, etc and yes, you'll be wall to wall at times. I was referring more to when you're dealing with a confrontation. Of course, even if the visual clues are not there and its a casual convo. with someone that you don't know, I still prefer to have some space. Afterall, I dont know this person and sure, they could be harmless, but you never know.

2) Regarding this post from Tez:
I find it interesting that so many people are so defensive and assume all the time that they will be attacked. Is it a sign that you come from violent societies?

Sadly, in todays world, violence seems to be getting worse every day. The city just north of me pretty much has a shooting or mult. shootings on a daily basis. Street crime is high. Do I frequent bad areas? Any area can be bad, some worse than others, but I do my best to stay out of bars, clubs, etc. I'm not a paranoid person, but I like to be aware and do what I can to minimize something bad happening to me. Hey, if its gonna happen its gonna happen, but if I can prevent something, if I can avoid a bad situation, etc., I'm going to do it.

 

[samurai69]

In the societies where closeness is the norm it's more likely that if you were to be attacked the attacker would keep their distance at first rather than come close.

I have to say i havenbt noticed that too much here so far, but will try and be aware of its nature

.

 

[Tez3]

I have to say i havenbt noticed that too much here so far, but will try and be aware of its nature

.

People who are about to do you harm don't want to become 'involved' with you, it's easier to attack a stranger than a person known to you. Thats why of course if you can engage a potential attacker and continue talking to them it becomes increasingly difficult for them to harm someone who is becoming 'human' to them. It's a rough guide of course but sometimes talking your way out of a situation is your best option.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I find it interesting that so many people are so defensive and assume all the time that they will be attacked. Is it a sign that you come from violent societies?

No, it's a sign of an independant mind. As has been written, "I'm the master of my fate, and captian of my soul".

Last time I used any violence was in the Virgin Islands, where gun control is complete. That was almost 20 years ago. But I know it can happen, in any society.

Deaf

 

[Ahriman]

Tez3, I have a very light case of psychopathy, and I find it hard to see others as "people". I know less than ten people I consider "humans". Other members of the human race are just that - members of the human race. I might consider them as friends and I'm able to speak with them for looong hours, but would they ever attack me (some get a bit agressive when drunk so I speak from experience), I strike back in the same manner as I'd do with strangers. Lucky for them that none of those attacks were even close to life threatening.
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Now consider the amount of psychopaths (and the seriousness of their case) when it comes to criminals.

 

[Empty Hands]

I find it interesting that so many people are so defensive and assume all the time that they will be attacked. Is it a sign that you come from violent societies?

Well, I haven't been attacked since grade school, and although I take martial arts, I don't really have it in mind for immediate defense use.

That said, I realize that much of this outlook comes from context and circumstance. Others may have very good reasons apart from a "violent society" for feeling a little more vigilant. Past victims of attacks for instance, those at a serious disadvantage, or those living in bad areas or with at-risk jobs. Remember, your own country has a big problem with violent assaults and crime, and could be considered "violent", yet you don't have this fear and don't understand those who do.

 

[Tez3]

No, it's a sign of an independant mind. As has been written, "I'm the master of my fate, and captian of my soul".

Last time I used any violence was in the Virgin Islands, where gun control is complete. That was almost 20 years ago. But I know it can happen, in any society.

Deaf

So are you saying that those of us who like people and don't mind their proximity aren't of independant minds? Of course violence can happen anyway but actually the majority of murders and violence happen between people that know or are related to each other rather than between complete strangers.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Tez3,

An independent mind is someone who has confidence in themselves. Confidence they can handle whatever comes their way. You get this partaly by training, part by the values that are installed. It cannot be faked, either you have it or you don't.

Training in such weapons as firearms gives a huge boost of ones feelings they can alter the outcome of whatever happens to them. No I'm not talking about gang bangers or criminals, but the honest, decent, hard working folk. This leads to ones willing to think for themselves and venture out for themselves. They start asking 'why' and 'why not'. Coupled with that good values that have been instilled by their families, churchs, communities and you end up with a real bunch of tough nuts to crack.

Oh, and I like people. Work around them all day. Have many a friend. And there my personal spaces shrinks cause I know I'm around people I can trust.

But at 2 am, in the bad part of town, well I don't know who is whom or what their intentions are. That is where your personal space expands. You keep them at a distance and that is where you don't turn your back on someone your gut tells you are up to no good.

Deaf

 

[Empty Hands]

This leads to ones willing to think for themselves and venture out for themselves. They start asking 'why' and 'why not'. Coupled with that good values that have been instilled by their families, churchs, communities and you end up with a real bunch of tough nuts to crack.

*sigh* I only wish this were true. No, I'm afraid these folks have their own blind spots, which makes them all too willing to believe irrational things in certain areas.

 

[MJS]

Of course violence can happen anyway but actually the majority of murders and violence happen between people that know or are related to each other rather than between complete strangers.

With all due respect, I don't think I can agree with this 100%. While there may be some cases where this is true, there are many crimes that happen in which the victim does not know the attacker. There were 2 pretty violent home invasions in my state recently and the victims did not know the attackers. I'd also say that many of the street level armed robberies that take place here are done by people who do not know their victims.

 

[Deaf Smith]

*sigh* I only wish this were true. No, I'm afraid these folks have their own blind spots, which makes them all too willing to believe irrational things in certain areas.

Everyone is human, Empty Hands. Having an independant mind or posession of weapons does not make one prefect.

Please explain what irrational things they are all to often willing to believe.

Deaf

 

[Tez3]

With all due respect, I don't think I can agree with this 100%. While there may be some cases where this is true, there are many crimes that happen in which the victim does not know the attacker. There were 2 pretty violent home invasions in my state recently and the victims did not know the attackers. I'd also say that many of the street level armed robberies that take place here are done by people who do not know their victims.

Well I did say the majority not all! :wink2:

I don't think being armed necessarily gives you more confidence as such, it can give you a false confidence that leads to you getting into a situation that if you weren't armed you'd run a mile from. It's too much of a generalisation to say being armed will give you confidence.
I don't believe either that all values instilled into you are necessarily good ones, again that's a generralisation. We have a political party over here called the British National Party, they are basically Nazis. the values those members instill into their offspring are hardly likely to be good ones. Many churches teach hatred too, we have a small church near us who preach and believe the Pope is the Anti-Christ among other interesting things. Surely independant thinking people have actually thought things out for themselves and their beliefs aren't engendered by carrying weapons or their upbringing but of literally thinking for themselves.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am certainly not going to add anything of use to this conversation and I apologize for the intrusion but I have wanted to give this response since my first post.

I only need enough Personal Space to swing my battle axe.

Thank You, I feel better now and I will scurry off and not bother you again. :asian:

 

[Tez3]

I am certainly not going to add anything of use to this conversation and I apologize for the intrusion but I have wanted to give this response since my first post.

I only need enough Personal Space to swing my battle axe.

Thank You, I feel better now and I will scurry off and not bother you again. :asian:

OOh a man with a battle axe, does your wife mind you calling her mother that?

 

[Empty Hands]

Please explain what irrational things they are all to often willing to believe.

Well, this is a generality for this demographic, it does not apply to all. This group showed admirable skepticism about the Clinton administration's heavy handed police tactics in incidents like Ruby Ridge and Waco. However, when a guy they liked got in the door (Bush), they were willing to suspend that skepticism and embrace, excuse and defend some of the same or worse police tactics used by the Bush administration. If Clinton had proposed domestic spying programs and unlimited wiretapping authority for the executive, these folks would have gone nuts.

 

[MJS]

Well I did say the majority not all! :wink2:

I don't think being armed necessarily gives you more confidence as such, it can give you a false confidence that leads to you getting into a situation that if you weren't armed you'd run a mile from. It's too much of a generalisation to say being armed will give you confidence.

Hey Tez,

Just for clarification, I wasn't talking about the defender being armed, I was talking about the bad guy being armed, with a gun or knife. But, going with what you said, I agree. If the good guy wants to carry a weapon for self defense purposes, thats fine, but, as you said, just because its being carried, doesn't, IMHO, mean success or that the weapon will even be able to be pulled.

Mike

 

[Ahriman]

[off]
Xue Sheng, when my knee is really killing me, I DO go walking using a 190 cm poleaxe as a walking aid. It doesn't take that much space to get moving.
[/off]
Having a weapon only gives confidence when you know that at any given moment you can draw and utilize it. Now constantly taking care of it (grip-hand distance, grip position, distance of closest possible opponent) would require a constantly focused mind, which is a hard thing even if speaking mildly. If you have that mind capacity, fine, otherwise you shouldn't be more confident than you would be in an unarmed setting.

Edited to add: The above (esp. the "Having a weapon only gives confidence...") is only true if you have a self-critical mind. Criminals don't tend to have one.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Well, this is a generality for this demographic, it does not apply to all. This group showed admirable skepticism about the Clinton administration's heavy handed police tactics in incidents like Ruby Ridge and Waco. However, when a guy they liked got in the door (Bush), they were willing to suspend that skepticism and embrace, excuse and defend some of the same or worse police tactics used by the Bush administration. If Clinton had proposed domestic spying programs and unlimited wiretapping authority for the executive, these folks would have gone nuts.

So the Bush Admin. ended up burning down a compound with lots of children (not war, but a police action?) Or shot a woman with a baby in her arms (again, not during war, but a police action?) Note: I think Reno didn't think what happened, would happen as for Waco but when it's on your watch, it's on your watch.

And if you go visit Instapundint, Glenn Reynolds, you will see lots of conservitives don't like the wiretapping either. But a conserative is not the same as a Libertarian (and THEY are very independant minded!)

But, Clinton didn't have 9/11 on his plate either (well Clinton did have the first trade center bombing, the Cole, U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania bombed all still doing nothing but talk, but when the Alfred Murrah Federal Building was bombed they did crack down on farmers using fertilizer.)

Deaf

 

[MJS]

Hmm..what does Bush and politics have to do with this thread?