young and helpless

[muayThaiPerson]

i have this little friend who is a victim of a bully. he told the teachers but it just made it worst. well he came up to me adn asked me to teach him MT. i promised i would help but i teaching MT in a matter of days is impossible. it requires intense training.
i just want to ask some of the MAers to post some quick techniques so i can help him.

thanks:asian:

 

[Angus]

Tell him to 1) take it to someone who will do something about the bully, and 2) find a REAL MA teacher so he (and you) will learn that beating up the bully won't solve the problem.

I don't think you're qualified to be teaching Muay Thai to your friend. If I'm correct, you have 3 months of experience in it, which is still in the VERY BEGINNING stages. You have to realize that you're representing your school wherever you go, so I wonder how they'd feel about you teaching someone, let alone teaching someone so he can jump a bully.

Fighting is NOT the answer, mmmkay?

 

[J-kid]

If this guys getting picked on help him out, This isnt a cheap kungfu movie where you can have him wax your cars and he will learn self defense. I noticed when i posted my problems about bullys they would rather i would give them a blind eye and let them go on doing there bullying ways, then me steping in and helping i dont really know why this is. Proble because they are afraid people inside or are in some state of mind where there upper lip is covering up there sence of justice. Its really up to you i would see if you cant go talk to these kids maybe. Try teaching him some punchs grabs etc.

 

[J-kid]

I was talking about the some of the people on this form when i referd to people giving the ignore to the problems of people getting picked on..

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I was talking about the some of the people on this form when i referd to people giving the ignore to the problems of people getting picked on..

IT seems that you are saying these things to get a reaction out of people on this board. Well, I'll accomodate you, but in doing so, I hope I may help a little with both your issues and MTP's problems. You spoke of fear and justice. I think fear can be controling, and in being controled by fear, makes you want to fight. If you are actually not afraid at all, there is absolutely no reason to fight. Thats what most of the MAist on this board are trying to say to you. When it comes to bulleys, fighting generaly doesn't do much good. If you fight them you are pulling yourself down to their level, why would you want to be on the saem level with them? Everyone can see a bully and if you fight him, everyone will know that you are no better. What makes a bully so mad he can't get over himslef is if you do not fight him. Evry attempt he makes to piss you off, let it slide off your shoulders. He won't be able to deal with it, and will eventualy stop messing with you. Now I'm not saying if he actually attacks you, to not defend yourself, but alot of people take a shove as an attack and cream the guy, thats no better than what he is doing.

In MuayThaiPersons situation, maybe you could go talk to the guy yourself, for your friend. Be stern, but nice, tell him to leave him the @#%$@ alone I do have to agree that you should not try teaching him anything after having only studied for 3 or 4 months. I don't think you should really be teaching anything with less time than a year, but thats just me. I don't htink you would be helping him, he would try to defend himself, probably piss the guy off more, and maybe get hurt. Go to someone who can stop it, keep goign to them until it is fixed, that will make you look like a much bigger person than this bully.


JMHO

7sm

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I was talking about the some of the people on this form when i referd to people giving the ignore to the problems of people getting picked on..

B/c of school shooting incidents, all bully cases are taken seriously. I find it hard to believe about the situation described.

 

[tonbo]

I don't shy away from telling people to stand up for either themselves OR for justice. Up until my junior year in high school, *I* was the school "speed bag"; my dance card was consistently filled with people who wanted to knock me down, either physically or mentally. When I was in grade school, if you were looking for a great place to hang your "kick me" sign, it was on my back.

I didn't fight back. I knew that, if I did, it would get worse. I went and talked with my dad about it. He gave me the simple advice that I should not seek out conflict, however, I should stand up for myself. He said that if I were attacked, actually punched, or if a fight was looking to start, then I should fight to protect myself--otherwise, it just wasn't worth it. (For the record, my dad is a VietNam vet, stands 6'2", and has had his share of "conflicts").

Long and the short of it is this: I have had only one actual fight in my life, and that was in grade school. It was when the local bully pushed me too far. He swung once, and I finished the fight for him. I had no training, other than to "just not let up". That fight stopped the bully from EVER bothering me again, but I have never felt like it was a great resounding victory.

Now I have two boys. One is 13, and he has had a couple of run-ins with bullies himself. He is a blue belt in Kenpo, and has never used it. He has managed to talk his way or "stare down" his way out of conflict so far. He doesn't want to use what knowledge he has--he uses confidence as a shield.

Judo-Kid, I don't know much about you, but I think you need to back off when you suggest that people here are afraid to advocate use of force, or that we are somehow weaker for not suggesting you teach your friend to maim this guy. You know the old saying? "When two tigers fight, both get hurt". Say muayThai teaches this kid some moves that will "help" him. If he been studying for less than a year (and even around a year!), he won't fully understand all the subtleties of the art--he is still a tiger himself, strong and fierce, attacking instead of thinking.

Okay, now this kid goes out with more confidence, 'cuz now he has some "bada$$ moves" to protect himself. When the bully picks on him next, he uses those moves, even though he doesn't fully understand them. The bully counters them, and, now being quite pissed off, hurts the kid worse. Who is at fault now?

muayThai, I would suggest that you stick around this kid, don't teach him the moves. Hang out with him if you can, when you can, and show that you are backing him up. Suggest that he come take classes with you at your MT school; help him get training for REAL. Don't give him a tool that neither of you are fully aware of--it's like handing a gun to a kindergartener and telling him only to use it in "bad" situations.

Sorry to rant, folks, but here it is: I am NO advocate of just walking away in all circumstances. There are always times when fighting is necessary; it is *never* absolute, but there are times. I *am* a strong advocate of common sense and awareness, and not just rushing out with emotional responses.

Bullies are a fact of life. They will ALWAYS be there. However, they are also human, and they have the same rights you do. It is easy to get hurt in *any* conflict--don't seek out the pain unless there is no other way. Don't pass on "knowledge" that you have, even if the intentions are good, if it could get someone else hurt worse. Yes, help this kid.....but don't teach him *anything* except perhaps that he has allies, and you are willing to help him get *real* training.

Okay, okay.....rant mode off.....my apologies....

Peace--

 

[J-kid]

i am not saying all of you are or even most just some seem to be

 

[Kirk]

I went to a Jr High school (7th and 8th grade) where the school
district kept their flunkies. They just passed them right along,
regardless of grades and behavioral problems until they got to
Jr. High, and then kept them there until they dropped out. I went
to school, at 12 yrs old, with guys that had beards! Heck they
drove themselves to school! I got my butt whupped every single
day, most often, numerous times per day. For a long, long time,
I never fought back. Even the guys that were my age, all hit
puberty before I did, and were just huge compared to me. Even
if you fought, you had to fight 12 of the guys' friends at the same
time. If the fight went to the ground, tons of kids would come up
for s's and g's and kick the living crap out of you.

One kid, I couldn't cross his path without him beating the living
daylights out of me. My dad, a recently retired marine, gave the
advice of "punch them in the mouth". :shrug: Well this guy, I
decided after a year and a half of him pounding on me, would get
ONE hit from me. I figured the beating he'd give me would be no
worse than the one he'd give me anyways. So if I saw him first,
I'd go up to him and hit him just as hard as I could in the back,
back of the head, whatever. I was right, the beating was no
worse. After 2 weeks, he took me aside, and said, "look .. if you
don't mess with me, I won't mess with you." We shook on it, and
never fought again. It was then that I realized, that sometimes,
you just got to take a stand, regardless of the consequences.
So I fought a LOT the rest of that year. Never won a single one,
because they were ALL much bigger than I. But the fights slowly
decreased to where sometimes I could go a week without getting
pounded on.

On the flip side of that, I hit puberty, and it seemed like I shot
from 4' 11" to 5' 9" over the summer. During that summer I
became obsessed with body building and packed on a lot of
muscle. When I got back to school as a freshman, I towered over
those guys. I became the bully! I had a chip on my shoulder like
you wouldn't believe, and for YEARS, I'd fight anyone that was
looking for a fight. If someone would say, "What are you looking
at?!?!?" the fight was on. Win or lose, I got my rocks off from
fighting, drawing blood or being bloody. I'm glad I grew up. But
in MY opinion .. had I fought back from day 1 ... I don't think I
would've had that chip on my shoulder. A year and a half of
crawling on my belly gave me 10 years of attitude. Feeling
anything negative from someone made it 100% necessary for me
to kick their tail. I hurt some good, decent people

Take that for whatever you'd like. The lesson I'd like to impart to
my child is .. if you can walk away WITHOUT getting hit, then do it.
But if someone wants to hurt you, kick their ***.

 

[Despairbear]

It seems to be pretty simple to me, if some one is being assaulted CALL THE POLICE. This is a crime, threataning a person is a crime, laying hands on a person is a crime. It does not matter the age of the people involved, they still have the right to live a life under the protection of the law.


Despair Bear

 

[Nightingale]

honestly, teachers, principals, parents, or whatever, don't stop bullying. they can try, they can sit kids down to talk about stuff, but when it gets back to the playground, the problems continue.

When I was in sixth grade, the only thing that stopped two guys from bullying me was a right jab and a left cross. I didn't have much training at the time, but they had a black eye and a bloody nose respectively, and got suspended for fighting. They didn't snitch on me because they didn't want to say that a girl had bloodied them up.

However, I need to point out that I had tried EVERY possible anti-bully tactic... including

1. telling teacher
2. telling principal
3. ignoring them
4. talking it out with them
5. talking it out with teachers present
6. talking it out with parents present

I'd been cornered somewhere where I was alone, and felt physically threatened. As a female, I can get away with striking first in certain circumstances, and being outnumbered two to one by people obviously trying to hurt me is one of them. The law isn't as kind to males, so make sure it isn't you that throws the first punch, because you could not only be in trouble with the school, you could get sued or arrested.

My rules for fighting:

1. make sure they touch you first... in most places, this can put the law on your side, because you were physically threatened

2. make sure you're actually in danger of taking a beating. If you are, you're gonna get suspended anyway, cause schools suspend ANYONE involved in a fight, whether they started it or not... if you're not certain there's gonna be a fight, don't start one. a fight you win is one you walk away from.

3. if you're gonna fight, make sure its YOU that finishes it. Do not fight back unless you are absolutely certain you can win, or you have absolutely no other choice. There's no point in fighting just to get your tail whupped up on, because that just gives the bully more confidence, and they'll beat on you again.

4. don't fight "fair" use whatever means are at your disposal. biting, scratching, groin shots, whatever. The second the bully threw a punch, he gave you the right to open up a can of whup ***.

5. disable. don't maim. if you knee your opponent in the groin, they're gonna stop. there's no need to hit to the throat. This guy isn't trying to kill you. he just wants the power trip that comes from kicking your tail around the schoolyard.

How to NOT fight... this is much more important.

1. bullies are cowards and afraid of groups. don't go places alone, and most of them won't bother you.

2. sit near the lunch aid or monitor at lunch or recess.

3. wait by the yard aid while you're waiting for your parents to pick you up from school, and stay with your friends.

4. make sure that parents, teachers, and school administration are aware that a problem exists. you'd be surprised how many people you'll have on your side.

There's safety in numbers. I got picked on in junior high for a month or two, and then started to make sure that I always had people around me. The bullying stopped, because they couldn't get me alone. I had also mentioned the issue to my art teacher, who had told my math teacher, who was male and rather intimidating looking. He took to hovering conspicuously near me while he was on yard duty, plus mentioned it to the football coach, who wasn't real happy with his team bullying, so he had them practicing several days at recess to get them off the playground. There are things teachers can do without direct intervention that can help. They can't make the bullying quit, but they can help tone it down a notch or two.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

..... They didn't snitch on me because they didn't want to say that a girl had bloodied them up.....

Ahhhh, the good ol' days when even the bad guys have pride, lol

 

[kenposcum]

Yeah, all too often the teachers and school administrators can not be counted on to react appropriately, add to that the fact that bullied children tend to be less assertive and shy, unwilling to pursue help...and we have a bullies' paradise in our schools. Even in the wake of recent school shootings, bullyism is a problem that won't go away with lackadaisical parnets and educators. Sad...
Muay Thai Person, your responsibility is not to teach this kid some moves (no offense, but if you've only been training for a few months, you're just going to get the kid beaten), but to teach the kid to be a loudmouth. Hell, why don't you wait with a camcorder and film the kid getting picked on? Then you'd have some ammunition when you went over the principal to the school superintendent. Make the kid yell about being picked on by bullies, write your local newspaper and complain about the lack of action on the part of the school...make a big huge fuss over this, because making this thing public is what will solve it.
It might not sound manly, but if I had known this stuff back when I was a kid, I could have saved myself a lot of psychological trauma, not to mention a lot of bruises and bloodletting.
:asian:

 

[Master of Blades]

Judo-Kid............I dont even wanna chat about that comment. And that view is a matter of opinion and that opinion, no matter what you feel about it, is widely thought on as the right one. As to some people dissagreeing with you............:shrug: live with it. Alot of these people have much more experiance then you. From what Ive sen Im younger then you but I do have more experiance. I've been bullied was ever since I went into secondary school. I tried the whole ignoring thing and it worked for a little while. I tried the whole fighting thing, but that just got me beaten the crap out of me (It was a 4 on 1 situation by the way!). In the end I just stayed out there way and now Im best freinds with 1 of them. Anyway......back on track. You have the same problem I used to have. You dont think enough before you make statements. You have unintentionally offended quite a few people on this board. But hey your entitled to your own opinion.

Muay Tai dude, I dont think your really gonna be able to teach anything of use. As Guru Dan Inasanto said,

"It takes 5 minutes to learn a technique but a lifetime to perfect it."

Your not gonna be able to teach him anything of major use in my opinion. Plus I dont really think that your teacher would approve of you teaching this other guy how to put up a fight against someone else.

 

[muayThaiPerson]

i didnt mean to encourage him to fight. i just needed some advise to give he gets corners or is in a situation where he needs to fights. i told him to stay away and i am not teching any muay thai whatsoever. sorry for the misunderstandign:asian:

 

[Kenpo Wolf]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

,,,,,i just want to ask some of the MAers to post some quick techniques so i can help him.

thanks:asian:

You have contradicted yourself, dude. Teaching techniques to another person IS teaching him to fight. And lessons from an untrained person will teach him false hope. If you want to help this kid out, talk to his parents and let them tag along with you to your school. Hell, maybe you can get them both into the martial arts.

BTW, how did this 'little person' find out you was into the martial arts? Was you boasting about it or something like that?

 

[muayThaiPerson]

he saw me with my uniform once and asked about it. and i see what u guys mean. the problem with the bully is hes one of those kids who needs attention and his family isnt too well. like one of those kids whose parents couldnt care less about what he does and thinks their always right. the problem is the parents fault. and that i cannot handle:asian:

 

[Angus]

So then why do you want to teach him martial arts if you know that it's not going to help? Take it to an authority who can supervise during the times when the bullying usually takes place, and it'll get resolved somehow.

 

[J-kid]

Hey master of blades. Its true my Grammer isnt my strongest subject but i am really into other areas this just turns out to be one of my worth, Other areas i am really good with Science Socil studys and Math. As for how much more you know then me . That is yet to be seen,:shrug:

 

[J-kid]

i mean worst area.