Xing-yi hands, Taichi waist, and Bagua legs

Jens

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"In the old days, Xing-yi, Taichi and Bagua were one art (same family). it says, Xing-yi hands, Taichi waist, and Bagua legs"
I can understand what this means in regards to the skillsets of "Xing-yi hands and Taichi waist", but can anyone explain what the Bagua legs skillset entails?
 

Xue Sheng

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In the old days they were not one art, Xingyiquan and Baguazhsng were very different arts brought together when Dong Hai Chuan (Bagua) allegedly fought Guo Yunshen (Xingyiquan) to a draw sometime before 1882. Taijiquan got thrown into the mix by Sun Lutang before 1933.

Historically, not mythically
Baguazhang was developed by Dong Hai Chuan sometime before 1882
Xingyiquan dates to sometime between 1809 and 1888
Taijiquan, Chen family, between 15801660

None of them need the other to work well, if trained properly.
 
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Monkey Turned Wolf

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The thing that comes to my mind for bagua legs is their circle walking, and fluidity of movement. So according to that quote, combining that fluidity and circle-walking ability/footwork with the other two were ideal.

That said, like xue stated they weren't made with the intention of being combined.
 

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The thing that comes to my mind for bagua legs is their circle walking, and fluidity of movement. So according to that quote, combining that fluidity and circle-walking ability/footwork with the other two were ideal.

That said, like xue stated they weren't made with the intention of being combined.

Both styles were fairly popular with fighters and security type folk in old China. But Xingyiquan was used by the Chinese army in WW2
 

Kung Fu Wang

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can anyone explain what the Bagua legs skillset entails?
You use leg to attack your opponent's leading leg, when he steps back, you use the same leg (or different leg) to attack his other leg.

As far as I know, this strategy is not commonly used in most MA systems.

Here is an example. You use your shin bone to run into your opponent's leading leg. When he steps back, you use the same leg (or different leg) to run into his other leg. If he steps back again, you can ...

Of course when your opponent pays attention on your leg, you can punch on his head.

Chang-foot-sweep.gif
 

TaiChiTJ

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"In the old days, Xing-yi, Taichi and Bagua were one art (same family). it says, Xing-yi hands, Taichi waist, and Bagua legs"
I can understand what this means in regards to the skillsets of "Xing-yi hands and Taichi waist", but can anyone explain what the Bagua legs skillset entails?

The only place I see that kind of statement used is in describing Liu He Ba Fa, or the 99 posture Tai Chi form created by Chen Pan Ling. But as Xue Sheng points out, they rose in history separately.
 

Xue Sheng

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The only place I see that kind of statement used is in describing Liu He Ba Fa, or the 99 posture Tai Chi form created by Chen Pan Ling. But as Xue Sheng points out, they rose in history separately.

Thank you, you just made me think of something I had forgotten

"In the old days, Xing-yi, Taichi and Bagua were one art (same family). it says, Xing-yi hands, Taichi waist, and Bagua legs"
I can understand what this means in regards to the skillsets of "Xing-yi hands and Taichi waist", but can anyone explain what the Bagua legs skillset entails?

Should also add that the terminology "Xingyi hands, Taichi waist, and Bagua legs" is associated with Sun style Taijiquan, which is a combination of all 3. So likely this is an invention of Sun Lutang.
 

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You use leg to attack your opponent's leading leg, when he steps back, you use the same leg (or different leg) to attack his other leg.

As far as I know, this strategy is not commonly used in most MA systems.

Here is an example. You use your shin bone to run into your opponent's leading leg. When he steps back, you use the same leg (or different leg) to run into his other leg. If he steps back again, you can ...

Of course when your opponent pays attention on your leg, you can punch on his head.

Chang-foot-sweep.gif
Interesting video. We have that exact sweep combo in one of our forms. I tended to view them as simply the sweep done on either side, application done separately. But I like this application, straight out of the form.
 

CMyers0323

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The thing that comes to my mind for bagua legs is their circle walking, and fluidity of movement. So according to that quote, combining that fluidity and circle-walking ability/footwork with the other two were ideal.

That said, like xue stated they weren't made with the intention of being combined.
Could it possibly be a reference to the hidden leg techniques? I found out about them some time ago. There's a book on it called the 72 leg techniques or something simialar.
 

CMyers0323

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Here is another shin bite and reverse shin bite application that added into the Taiji "Ji - press forward".

Taiji hand skill + leg skill = throw.

Lin-Taiji-Ji.gif
The first time I read about this I thought it was used on the front of their leg which I thought would be difficult to pull off but coming from the side seems to be way more effective. Thanks for the video it definitely demonstrates it well
 

CMyers0323

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I was watching a video on Monkey Kung Fu with I think his name is Jiang yu shan. Pretty sure everyone's seen his videos. But he mentions Xing Yi and how he uses or changes the elements in his strikes. Now I don't mean using wood or Earth fist but seemingly said the hardness or something of his technique/arm. Anyone know about this? I've done some Xing Yi but it's not something I've heard of before. I'll look for the video and post it if I can. Any knowledge shared helps!


Mentioned around 6:20ish
 

Xue Sheng

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I was watching a video on Monkey Kung Fu with I think his name is Jiang yu shan. Pretty sure everyone's seen his videos. But he mentions Xing Yi and how he uses or changes the elements in his strikes. Now I don't mean using wood or Earth fist but seemingly said the hardness or something of his technique/arm. Anyone know about this? I've done some Xing Yi but it's not something I've heard of before. I'll look for the video and post it if I can. Any knowledge shared helps!


Mentioned around 6:20ish

Different styles apply the 5 elements differently. Most notably Internal styles and styles that come from Shaolin
 
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CMyers0323

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Different styles apply the 5 elements differently. Most notably Internal styles and styles that come from Shaolin
I see that makes sense. Would this thing I've mentioned be more of a standard in Xing Yi or is this something completely internal? He mentions using his Yi but that isn't exactly a clear example of what's being done.

I was thinking it might be different Jing but that's still something I'm not sure of.
 

Xue Sheng

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I see that makes sense. Would this thing I've mentioned be more of a standard in Xing Yi or is this something completely internal? He mentions using his Yi but that isn't exactly a clear example of what's being done.

I was thinking it might be different Jing but that's still something I'm not sure of.

I have not heard of earth being used that way in Xingyiqaun. However that does not mean it isn't in some style or by some teacher. Earth in Xingyiquan is Hengquan and it is more about stability, IMO, and has multiple applications
 

CMyers0323

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I have not heard of earth being used that way in Xingyiqaun. However that does not mean it isn't in some style or by some teacher. Earth in Xingyiquan is Hengquan and it is more about stability, IMO, and has multiple applications
Yeah I wasnt sure in the video it seems more or less like using power or as he says it hardening. Which I can see Xing Yi having I'm just not sure if there's any training related to this. I haven't found many good Xing Yi books to research this topic.

Is there anything remotely similar for even the other elements in the Xing Yi you know?
 

Xue Sheng

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Yeah I wasnt sure in the video it seems more or less like using power or as he says it hardening. Which I can see Xing Yi having I'm just not sure if there's any training related to this. I haven't found many good Xing Yi books to research this topic.

Is there anything remotely similar for even the other elements in the Xing Yi you know?

I have not come across this "hardening" in xingyiquan.
 

CMyers0323

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I have not come across this "hardening" in xingyiquan.
Yeah it seems to be exclusive to his style. I did bring it up to my instructor and he mentioned more of a mindset/ and way of using techniques which I'm always down for but I wasnt sure how it I guess "compared" to the video. Not in effectiveness but just if it was the same thing. This seems to be something that could be very useful if mastered.
 

Xue Sheng

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Yeah it seems to be exclusive to his style. I did bring it up to my instructor and he mentioned more of a mindset/ and way of using techniques which I'm always down for but I wasnt sure how it I guess "compared" to the video. Not in effectiveness but just if it was the same thing. This seems to be something that could be very useful if mastered.

If you talked to my Taijiquan shifu it is just the build up qi on the bones and it comes with time and training. But, years ago, I had the opportunity to work on a xingyiqusn 2 person 5 element form with.a long time Hung Gar practitioner, for him, it is just training on a wooden pole by hitting it with your forearms.
 

Oily Dragon

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Two Xing Yi books I'd recommend are Dixon Fung's. Lots of great insight on how Xing Yi approaches the Wu Xing elemental creative and destructive cycles.

"Chinese Internal Martial Arts - My Personal Journey"

"Shang style Xing Yi Training guide - My Personal Journey".
 

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