World Jiu-Jitsu Champion Killed

[JowGaWolf]

If you wish to pretend that your behaviour or lucky undies or whatever is protecting you from being shot. That's fine. Because the likelihood is nobody wants to shoot you anyway.

One's behavior has no influence over another's actions. Got it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To be fair, this sounds a little patronizing, it’s not really your style Steve. You know better.

It doesn't even bother me. He's has been like that to me on more than one occasion. He's been in that ignore box multiple times too lol.

He just didn't factor the possibility that I would say what I did. I had my dark days where someone harassing me or popping off at the mouth was enough for me to justify to myself "Punch that dude in his mouth." and I would have been cool with it. I've never posted in this group that I was a good guy or a saint. I try to be respectful but being respectful has nothing to do with what people feel.

I grew up in a neighborhood where "Say Sumtin else." (say something else) had and still has consequences. But my hood isn't his hood so he might not understand that people are actually like that. That someone would purposely have some point in their life where they want to fight the guy that they dislike so much. That had the person just kept their mouth shut and take the lost, then there wouldn't have been a fight. lol.

But what do I know. Maybe they are right. One's behavior never affects another person yet they troll the forum for that very purpose. It is what it is. When I get tired of it, I just pop him back into that ignore box.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeah. I thought I recalled that. Why didn’t you influence the situation to avoid the fight?

I’m presuming you either killed the guys or beat them unconscious based on your rationale. Right? Or did your pull zip ties out of your pocket to subdue the guy? Based on your posts here, I would find it hard to believe otherwise.

Personally, I’ve been in a lot of fights and also a few not quite fights that got physical. In every one of them, there was a point where I judged the situation over and disengaged because to keep going would no longer be self defense.

In my opinion.

Again, leading, and not very productive. You presume a lot here and then claim a “lot“ of fights. In X number of fights that you were in, “In every one of them” you were in such control that you were able to judge the situation to be over and choose to disengage so as to not go beyond self defense? I like you Steve. I want to believe you. I am not necessarily saying that I don’t. I too, have been in X number of fights. In both a ”professional” and otherwise ”fights” I have been clubbed, stabbed with both bottle and knife, soccer kicked while grappling, shot at(but not shot), caned to unconsciousness, etc.etc. I can’t think of too many times where I had total control of the situations. Maybe you are just that guy I wish I was.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I wear them and haven't been shot. So proof really.

Mormons. Sheesh

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Correlation does not equal causation.

If you have not been shot. It was probably not due to your behaviour and a lot more to do with nobody wanted to shoot you.

The reasoning behind this is the very low percentage of people who do get shot. Regardless of their behaviour.

If you wish to pretend that your behaviour or lucky undies or whatever is protecting you from being shot. That's fine. Because the likelihood is nobody wants to shoot you anyway.

But you are not being very honest with yourself.

That has everything to do with longitude, latitude, and attitude.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

It doesn't even bother me. He's has been like that to me on more than one occasion. He's been in that ignore box multiple times too lol.

He just didn't factor the possibility that I would say what I did. I had my dark days where someone harassing me or popping off at the mouth was enough for me to justify to myself "Punch that dude in his mouth." and I would have been cool with it. I've never posted in this group that I was a good guy or a saint. I try to be respectful but being respectful has nothing to do with what people feel.

I grew up in a neighborhood where "Say Sumtin else." (say something else) had and still has consequences. But my hood isn't his hood so he might not understand that people are actually like that. That someone would purposely have some point in their life where they want to fight the guy that they dislike so much. That had the person just kept their mouth shut and take the lost, then there wouldn't have been a fight. lol.

But what do I know. Maybe they are right. One's behavior never affects another person yet they troll the forum for that very purpose. It is what it is. When I get tired of it, I just pop him back into that ignore box.

I grew up in Long Beach In the 80s. I graduated Long Beach Polytechnic High School in 1989. I think we may share a perspective that not everyone can appreciate. We should keep that in mind when engaging others in this particular regard. I’m mostly talking out loud to me.

 

[drop bear]

One's behavior has no influence over another's actions. Got it.

Yet one's undies absolutely do.

 

[drop bear]

One's behavior has no influence over another's actions. Got it.

Your actions had influence over your guy.

That does not mean your actions would have had influence over this guy.

 

[Steve]

To be fair, this sounds a little patronizing, it’s not really your style Steve. You know better.

It was a sincere question and he answered it. He has been in fights and admits to having enjoyed them and in some cases starting them. As I said to you in dm, when folks get triggered and lose their emotional regulation like a guy who has started fights and hurt people on purpose. Those types of guys are the ones you hear about shooting a security guard in a Walmart over a mask, or in road rage incidents, or in situations like the one in the OP in a bar. The “I hurt the guy and enjoyed it in that moment” crowd.

Fortunately, most of these guys don’t want to shoot people.

I wear them and haven't been shot. So proof really.

Me too. I actually have several pair, fortunately.

 

[Steve]

Again, leading, and not very productive. You presume a lot here and then claim a “lot“ of fights. In X number of fights that you were in, “In every one of them” you were in such control that you were able to judge the situation to be over and choose to disengage so as to not go beyond self defense? I like you Steve. I want to believe you. I am not necessarily saying that I don’t. I too, have been in X number of fights. In both a ”professional” and otherwise ”fights” I have been clubbed, stabbed with both bottle and knife, soccer kicked while grappling, shot at(but not shot), caned to unconsciousness, etc.etc. I can’t think of too many times where I had total control of the situations. Maybe you are just that guy I wish I was.

Not at all. I wasn’t able to avoid any of the fights I was in. I don’t like to fight. So every fight I’ve been in was because I didn’t think I had a choice.

But I can also say 100% that when I thought the fight was over I stopped. Because I don’t like hurting people.

 

[Steve]

It doesn't even bother me. He's has been like that to me on more than one occasion. He's been in that ignore box multiple times too lol.

He just didn't factor the possibility that I would say what I did. I had my dark days where someone harassing me or popping off at the mouth was enough for me to justify to myself "Punch that dude in his mouth." and I would have been cool with it. I've never posted in this group that I was a good guy or a saint. I try to be respectful but being respectful has nothing to do with what people feel.

I grew up in a neighborhood where "Say Sumtin else." (say something else) had and still has consequences. But my hood isn't his hood so he might not understand that people are actually like that. That someone would purposely have some point in their life where they want to fight the guy that they dislike so much. That had the person just kept their mouth shut and take the lost, then there wouldn't have been a fight. lol.

But what do I know. Maybe they are right. One's behavior never affects another person yet they troll the forum for that very purpose. It is what it is. When I get tired of it, I just pop him back into that ignore box.

Trolling is what folks call it when someone else disagrees with them. I don’t mind being ignored though. Do what you need to do.

But if you think I’m suggesting one’s behavior never affects another person, you have fundamentally misunderstood what I’ve been saying.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your actions had influence over your guy.

That does not mean your actions would have had influence over this guy.

Yeah it does. Lo's behavior was to physically take down the guy who at first had a bottle, which then influence the guy to pull out a gun. Had the guy wanted to start pointing the gun, he would have started with the gun first and not the bottle.

Lo was in a better situation when the bottle was out and that was before he took action. There were other people there who didn't take down the guy with the bottle. From what I understand they didn't get shot.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I grew up in Long Beach In the 80s. I graduated Long Beach Polytechnic High School in 1989. I think we may share a perspective that not everyone can appreciate. We should keep that in mind when engaging others in this particular regard. I’m mostly talking out loud to me.

Yeah. I'm starting to see that pattern.

Not at all. I wasn’t able to avoid any of the fights I was in. I don’t like to fight. So every fight I’ve been in was because I didn’t think I had a choice.

I had to chuckle at this one because you say you weren't able to avoid ANY of the fights you were in. Just thinking of how you respond to people here in this forum makes me think I understand why lol. You have a low belief that your behavior will have an affect on others, which means in your mind. You automatically think that what you say doesn't have an impact on the behavior on other,s and as a result you probably say or do things that make your situation worse.

You don't do any of the things that are mentioned here.

I could be wrong. How you are in offline may not be how you are in the forum. But if you are the same in the forum as you are offline then yeah, you probably talk yourself into fights and don't realize it. ( Unless the only fights that you have have been while on duty as a police officer or bouncers.)

See you this stuff below.

I’m presuming you either killed the guys or beat them unconscious based on your rationale. Right? Or did your pull zip ties out of your pocket to subdue the guy? Based on your posts here, I would find it hard to believe otherwise.

Personally, I’ve been in a lot of fights and also a few not quite fights that got physical. In every one of them, there was a point where I judged the situation over and disengaged because to keep going would no longer be self defense.

In my opinion.

But then you say I may not be understanding what you are talking about (see below). See that's the attitude that probably gets you into fight. You have this attitude that you don't have to understand anyone and that everyone has to understand you lol. Oh by the way I didn't need your permission to put you in the ignore box the first 4 times. I don't need your advice on how to do it for the 5th.

Trolling is what folks call it when someone else disagrees with them. I don’t mind being ignored though. Do what you need to do.

But if you think I’m suggesting one’s behavior never affects another person, you have fundamentally misunderstood what I’ve been saying.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah it does. Lo's behavior was to physically take down the guy who at first had a bottle, which then influence the guy to pull out a gun. Had the guy wanted to start pointing the gun, he would have started with the gun first and not the bottle.

Lo was in a better situation when the bottle was out and that was before he took action. There were other people there who didn't take down the guy with the bottle. From what I understand they didn't get shot.

No they were different guys.

 

[Steve]

I grew up in Long Beach In the 80s. I graduated Long Beach Polytechnic High School in 1989. I think we may share a perspective that not everyone can appreciate. We should keep that in mind when engaging others in this particular regard. I’m mostly talking out loud to me.

I don’t know anything about that school. Looked it up but can’t find much online. Looked big and you seem to have gone when it was brand new.

For what it’s worth, I went to Garfield high in Seattle at about the same time as you. Not a great student though, so I ended up at Marshall high (an alternative school) at nights for two years and also one summer. Garfield was mostly black at the time in a poor neighborhood and I'm not sure if we had more Asian students than Caucasian, but it was probably close. Marshall was in a better neighborhood but still not too many white dudes. Mostly Samoan, if I remember right.

To be clear, I'm sharing this because it seems to matter to you and I'm not ashamed of being pretty poor growing up or being a bad student in a rough school. But if this is about street cred, I won’t try to compete. That was a long time ago and I don’t think it matters much to the topic.

 

[Steve]

I had to chuckle at this one because you say you weren't able to avoid ANY of the fights you were in.

That's actually not what I said. But it's a good example of how you see what you expect and/or want to see, and then use the make believe to reinforce your preconceived notions. I said every fight I've ever been in is because I didn't think I had a choice.

But fights aren't getting shot. Right? Different things. And getting shot in the head at point blank range... that's something else entirely.

I'm a D&D nerd, so forgive me a nerdy analogy. I think whenever I've been in a fight, I failed a skill check of some kind. Might have been a diplomacy check. Might have been an agility check. Maybe a luck check. Different situations. And some I'm sure I could have avoided if I had better skills.

But every single time I've encountered someone with a gun, I am alive because I hit that luck check. It is pretty easy (physically) to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. That's something I learned in high school, when I saw kids get shot for just standing in the wrong place or wearing the wrong kind of shoes.

Just thinking of how you respond to people here in this forum makes me think I understand why lol. You have a low belief that your behavior will have an affect on others, which means in your mind. You automatically think that what you say doesn't have an impact on the behavior on other,s and as a result you probably say or do things that make your situation worse.

Ha. I get it. But again, I haven't ever said that what we say or do has no influence on others. In fact, I've said in this thread just the opposite several times. You are, again, jumping to conclusions and filtering.

That said, I think you have the wrong idea. Unlike you, I don't start fights. You're the one that does that. Right? Or at least you used to. I never have.

You don't do any of the things that are mentioned here.

I could be wrong. How you are in offline may not be how you are in the forum. But if you are the same in the forum as you are offline then yeah, you probably talk yourself into fights and don't realize it. ( Unless the only fights that you have have been while on duty as a police officer or bouncers.)

Not a bouncer or LEO, but sorry the say the only fights I've been in as an adult were professional... closer to what dirty dog deals with but less often, and without the benefit of sedatives on hand.

See you this stuff below.

Yeah, that was hyperbole. You know, making a point through exaggeration. I was trying to show you how circular your logic is, but I can see now you're too literal. I'll tone it down in the future.

But then you say I may not be understanding what you are talking about (see below). See that's the attitude that probably gets you into fight. You have this attitude that you don't have to understand anyone and that everyone has to understand you lol. Oh by the way I didn't need your permission to put you in the ignore box the first 4 times. I don't need your advice on how to do it for the 5th.

Yeah, again. I don't get into fights. But it's a good opportunity to do a little review... some sum up.

So far, you've blamed the victim who was shot in the head by an off duty police officer. To the point where not one time have you acknowledged that the guy with the gun might be the one at fault. Literally, not one time (and I would welcome your correction on that, if I missed it).

You have said that you start (or used to) start fights on purpose, and there have been times you've actually enjoyed hurting people.

Yeah, I think I understand you pretty well. When you get to the point where you're talking about me talking my way into fights, what I think is it's some pretty good insight into what you're thinking... that you can imagine how you'd handle a guy like me... or maybe have handled in the past. Am I the kind of guy you'd enjoy beating up? I get the impression that I might be. Better to put me on ignore, I think. Advice you may not want, and may ignore, but it's freely given. This forum isn't worth getting worked up over. It's just a discussion.

 

[JowGaWolf]

But fights aren't getting shot. Right? Different things. And getting shot in the head at point blank range... that's something else entirely.

Sometimes fights are the same as getting shot. You can fight with or without a weapon. A fight can be continuous or it can have pauses. Just because you think a fight is over doesn't mean that the other person thinks the fight over.

So far, you've blamed the victim who was shot in the head by an off duty police officer.

I've never said this in any of my points. What I did say from post in the beginning. "This news makes me think of sports vs self defense when people wonder what the difference is." But like always you

This news makes me think of sports vs self defense when people wonder what the difference is.

Like always you twist things.
I also haven't placed fault on any one. Where in any of my posts have I said. It was the BJJ's guys' fault or that it was the shooter's fault? Show me where I've said that. If I wanted to say such a thing then I would have said such a thing. I'm straight forward with what I say. Just like I was straight forward about what I think of you. Buy yet there's nothing in my post that seeks to put blame or fault. That's the negative assumption that you make about me and always have made about me.

You have said that you start (or used to) start fights on purpose, and there have been times you've actually enjoyed hurting people.

Yes there was a time where this was the person I was. Which is why I'm telling you that it's possible for your behavior to change the behavior of others. When "the bad guy" tells you the game. Be smart and learn from it. That way you have can have some insight about some of the people who are out there. I'm not special. I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Maybe understanding that there are people out there who are like that, will make someone think about the actions that they take, as it could lead up to a fight or worse a gunshot followed by death. But you can't understand any of that because you make assumptions about everyone instead of seeking understanding or clarification when you don't understand.

Just like you stated that 100% of us in the forum would have had the same end result in the same situation. Failing to understand that many of the people in this forum haven't seen a club in decades.

The irony is that a guy who used to start fights is telling you how it was and what drove that aggression, but you still trying to tell that guy he doesn't know what he's talking about.

You never started in a fight in your life so how would you know what's goes on in the mind of some people who do start fights? How can you possibly give any insight on such things. Were you friends with people who started fights? Do you listen to people who understand this type stuff. That just because someone is on the ground doesn't mean they can't get back up to hurt you. Didn't we literally have that type of discussion on this forum this year? My guess is that you aren't trying to understand or even listen to people, which is why you asked that question "Have I had a real fight before." You have no intention too be open to any other perspective but the one you hold.


.

 

[Steve]

Sometimes fights are the same as getting shot. You can fight with or without a weapon. A fight can be continuous or it can have pauses. Just because you think a fight is over doesn't mean that the other person thinks the fight over.


I've never said this in any of my points. What I did say from post in the beginning. "This news makes me think of sports vs self defense when people wonder what the difference is." But like always you


Like always you twist things.
I also haven't placed fault on any one. Where in any of my posts have I said. It was the BJJ's guys' fault or that it was the shooter's fault? Show me where I've said that. If I wanted to say such a thing then I would have said such a thing. I'm straight forward with what I say. Just like I was straight forward about what I think of you. Buy yet there's nothing in my post that seeks to put blame or fault. That's the negative assumption that you make about me and always have made about me.


Yes there was a time where this was the person I was. Which is why I'm telling you that it's possible for your behavior to change the behavior of others. When "the bad guy" tells you the game. Be smart and learn from it. That way you have can have some insight about some of the people who are out there. I'm not special. I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Maybe understanding that there are people out there who are like that, will make someone think about the actions that they take, as it could lead up to a fight or worse a gunshot followed by death. But you can't understand any of that because you make assumptions about everyone instead of seeking understanding or clarification when you don't understand.

Just like you stated that 100% of us in the forum would have had the same end result in the same situation. Failing to understand that many of the people in this forum haven't seen a club in decades.

The irony is that a guy who used to start fights is telling you how it was and what drove that aggression, but you still trying to tell that guy he doesn't know what he's talking about.

You never started in a fight in your life so how would you know what's goes on in the mind of some people who do start fights? How can you possibly give any insight on such things. Were you friends with people who started fights? Do you listen to people who understand this type stuff. That just because someone is on the ground doesn't mean they can't get back up to hurt you. Didn't we literally have that type of discussion on this forum this year? My guess is that you aren't trying to understand or even listen to people, which is why you asked that question "Have I had a real fight before." You have no intention too be open to any other perspective but the one you hold.


.

That last sentence is interesting. Is that what we’re trying to do? Share our perspectives? Are you open to mine?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I don’t know anything about that school. Looked it up but can’t find much online. Looked big and you seem to have gone when it was brand new.

For what it’s worth, I went to Garfield high in Seattle at about the same time as you. Not a great student though, so I ended up at Marshall high (an alternative school) at nights for two years and also one summer. Garfield was mostly black at the time in a poor neighborhood and I'm not sure if we had more Asian students than Caucasian, but it was probably close. Marshall was in a better neighborhood but still not too many white dudes. Mostly Samoan, if I remember right.

To be clear, I'm sharing this because it seems to matter to you and I'm not ashamed of being pretty poor growing up or being a bad student in a rough school. But if this is about street cred, I won’t try to compete. That was a long time ago and I don’t think it matters much to the topic.

That school has been there a very long time, with a few notable alumni, not that it matters. While I do believe that background affects perspective to some extent, it isn’t always helpful to add it to discussion, and it may or may not provide insight. It has little to do with “street cred” and more to do with shared experiences.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That last sentence is interesting. Is that what we’re trying to do? Share our perspectives? Are you open to mine?

what I was doing was clear. Sports vs self defense. I stated it in the first post. What's your perspective on that. Because right now all I'm reading is about your perspective about me and not about sports, self defense, nor the situation that Lo faced. Other than your belief that one behavior cannot change the behavior of others.