Wing Chun and Wushu

[Yanli]

Everyone, keep in mind that I am old school, and what I state may be different from what is taught today or near past. There are those that may disagree and argue what I say, you are more then welcomed to do so in a respectful manner, but test my statement first, before arguing with it.
In my MA, I blend Wushu with Wing Chun, the reason I do this is because it helps one make their moves smoother and more graceful, this in turn adds speed and power to a move. This is something I could argue till I am blue in the face, which I somewhat have lol. There is no way for me to explain it in technical term's, this is something you have to practice for yourself. Wing Chun and Wushu have many similarities and differences, to start with, WING Chun has more of an upward stance and Wushu has more of a lower stance. Both of these forms have similar moves to Kung Fu because they are a part of Kung Fu, however, Wing Chun is a direct line, as were Wushu is more circler like Kung Fu. There is also many questions on Wushu being more of a performance art then a combative form, well here is a link indicating that it was originally a fighting form, "What Is the Martial Art of Wushu?", there are those that still do use it more combative then performance. If you watch the aggressive Wushu on YouTube, you will greatly see the speed and power behind the form. I am sure many of you have seen video's and movies on Wing Chun, there are those that have argued that one should strike first if you want to win, that is not always true. When you make a strike first, you are opening yourself up, if, you manage to get a strike in, great. But always consider if you do not get that first strike in, and all the ways you have opened yourself up to counters. All of Wing Chun's moves have a defensive posture to it, just as Wushu, however, Wushu is not primarily a defensive form as WC.
Both forms use the same type of strikes and block's, but WC is more tightly in, compared to WU, WU uses higher kicks then WC, and as mentioned before, WC has more of a upward stance compared to WU lower stance. What many are not aware with both forms, they use a Tai Chi strengthening of the arm and hand as they strike or block. This technique is where you slowing strengthen your muscles as your approaching the target, this allows for not wasting energy, directing your strength, and making your moves smoother. Both forms use the same stances for various movements, and both slide the foot for some movements. There are certain techniques that WC has that I do not think WU has, but I use "I do not think" loosely, I do not know everything about Wushu. Know, save this posting, I will never admit again that I do not know everything lol. The certain techniques are only taught to those that have reached the right level of achievement. These are the common or basic differences, there are more minor subtle differences, but not worth getting into. I do plan on making a video in the near future touching on many of these issues and many others.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think you are using these terms in a way that is inconsistent with how others use them. So some definitions and explanation may be needed before any meaningful discussion can happen.

The term kung fu simply means to have skill developed from training and hard work. It has nothing directly to do with combat or fighting methods, although you can have good kung fu in your fighting abilities, but you can also have good kung fu as a chef or a carpenter or a physicist. However, when the Chinese fighting methods were first seen in the West, the term was misunderstood and has been used in the West ever since in reference to the Chinese fighting methods. To be clear, Wing Chun and Taiji are both forms of kung fu.

The term wushu is a term that more properly translates as war art or fighting method. However, the term is used most often in connection with Modern Wushu, which was developed by the Chinese government in the 1950s as a performance art and competition, and was deliberately modified from the older fighting methods to make it more aesthetically pleasing and removed from combat viability. To be clear, it is no longer a functional fighting method, and it is not intended to be one. However, some people do use the term in reference to the older fighting methods, those methods that we tend to call kung fu, but it is usually specified as Traditional Wushu to contrast with Modern Wushu.

So it is unclear to me how you are using these terms. When you say that you blend wushu with wing Chun, do you mean Modern Wushu, or Traditional Wushu? What method are you using? You are then using the term kung Fu as if it is something different from wushu and from wing Chun. So I am confused by your choice of terms and some explanation and clarification would be appreciated.

 

[Yanli]

Ok, I see your point, however, I tried using the broad term that the average person is familiar with, without getting too technical and confusing people. But, no matter how I

 

[Flying Crane]

But these terms refer to specific things and that definitely affects what you are trying to say here. For my part, I would simply like to know if you are referring to Modern or Traditional wushu, and if your answer is traditional, then which specific method? Traditional wushu is the same thing that we in the West call kung fu, they are broad, generic terms under which many specific and diverse systems fall. Wing Chun is a form of traditional wushu/kung fu, as is taiji. So if you are blending Wing Chun which is a Traditional Wushu with something else that is also a traditional wushu, like perhaps northern long fist or Choy lay fut, or hung gar, that is a very different thing than blending wing Chun with Modern Wushu performance methods.

 

[Yanli]

I think you are using these terms in a way that is inconsistent with how others use them. So some definitions and explanation may be needed before any meaningful discussion can happen.

The term kung fu simply means to have skill developed from training and hard work. It has nothing directly to do with combat or fighting methods, although you can have good kung fu in your fighting abilities, but you can also have good kung fu as a chef or a carpenter or a physicist. However, when the Chinese fighting methods were first seen in the West, the term was misunderstood and has been used in the West ever since in reference to the Chinese fighting methods. To be clear, Wing Chun and Taiji are both forms of kung fu.

The term wushu is a term that more properly translates as war art or fighting method. However, the term is used most often in connection with Modern Wushu, which was developed by the Chinese government in the 1950s as a performance art and competition, and was deliberately modified from the older fighting methods to make it more aesthetically pleasing and removed from combat viability. To be clear, it is no longer a functional fighting method, and it is not intended to be one. However, some people do use the term in reference to the older fighting methods, those methods that we tend to call kung fu, but it is usually specified as Traditional Wushu to contrast with Modern Wushu.

So it is unclear to me how you are using these terms. When you say that you blend wushu with wing Chun, do you mean Modern Wushu, or Traditional Wushu? What method are you using? You are then using the term kung Fu as if it is something different from wushu and from wing Chun. So I am confused by your choice of terms and some explanation and clarification would be appreciated.

Sorry, first post accidently posted before finishing. Ok, I see your point, however, I tried using the broad term that the average person is familiar with, without getting too technical and confusing people. But, no matter how I state things, there is always someone seeing things too technical or too broad, there is no pleasing everyone lol. I did state clearly that I use the smooth, grace and speed of Wushu, I did not state modern or traditional because it was irrelevant to the particular point. I try to speak for those that are beginners and those experienced, and I would figure that the more experienced would see the relevant points I was making without me needing to be too technical. I stated in my posting that I plan on making a video in the near future on the points I made and many others, hopefully, the points will be better understood by all. I thank you for your concern and your perspective, but like I said, one is too general or too technical, it is hard top find that happy medium lol.

 

[skribs]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[Yanli]

In my posting, I stated that I am old school, so naturally, I fallow the more traditional ways. However, like many instructors, I have made changes to the standard or traditional manner.

 

[Flying Crane]

Sorry, first post accidently posted before finishing. Ok, I see your point, however, I tried using the broad term that the average person is familiar with, without getting too technical and confusing people. But, no matter how I state things, there is always someone seeing things too technical or too broad, there is no pleasing everyone lol. I did state clearly that I use the smooth, grace and speed of Wushu, I did not state modern or traditional because it was irrelevant to the particular point. I try to speak for those that are beginners and those experienced, and I would figure that the more experienced would see the relevant points I was making without me needing to be too technical. I stated in my posting that I plan on making a video in the near future on the points I made and many others, hopefully, the points will be better understood by all. I thank you for your concern and your perspective, but like I said, one is too general or too technical, it is hard top find that happy medium lol.

The distinction between Modern and Traditional wushu is absolutely relevant.

You can do whatever you want, of course. You do not need the approval of myself or anyone else here. However, in my opinion, blending wing Chun with another form of traditional wushu could yield some interesting results, while blending wing Chun with modern wushu would likely make little sense at all.

You refer to the smoothness and speed and grace of wushu, which suggests to me you are talking about Modern wushu. But many forms of traditional wushu also have smoothness and speed and grace, so I really have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Flying Crane]

In my posting, I stated that I am old school, so naturally, I fallow the more traditional ways. However, like many instructors, I have made changes to the standard or traditional manner.

Can you just give a straight answer? Are you talking about Modern or Traditional wushu? If traditional, which method?

 

[Yanli]

The distinction between Modern and Traditional wushu is absolutely relevant.

You can do whatever you want, of course. You do not need the approval of myself or anyone else here. However, in my opinion, blending wing Chun with another form of traditional wushu could yield some interesting results, while blending wing Chun with modern wushu would likely make little sense at all.

You refer to the smoothness and speed and grace of wushu, which suggests to me you are talking about Modern wushu. , so I really have no idea what you are trying to say.

As you stated

Can you just give a straight answer? Are you talking about Modern or Traditional wushu? If traditional, which method?

I stated in my posting, I am old school, so of course I am speaking traditional. I did not state which method because I wanted the focus to be clearly just the smoothness, grace and speed, and in what way that can help your movements.

 

[skribs]

In my posting, I stated that I am old school, so naturally, I fallow the more traditional ways. However, like many instructors, I have made changes to the standard or traditional manner.

Ok...and what is the point of telling us this?

 

[Yanli]

The distinction between Modern and Traditional wushu is absolutely relevant.

You can do whatever you want, of course. You do not need the approval of myself or anyone else here. However, in my opinion, blending wing Chun with another form of traditional wushu could yield some interesting results, while blending wing Chun with modern wushu would likely make little sense at all.

You refer to the smoothness and speed and grace of wushu, which suggests to me you are talking about Modern wushu. But many forms of traditional wushu also have smoothness and speed and grace, so I really have no idea what you are trying to say.

I am not exactly sure in what your un-clear about, you stated "many forms of traditional wushu also have smoothness and speed and grace", the main point in my posting is how this can help your movements. If traditional and modern Wushu are the same then how is it relevant to the point I was making? But, even if they are not the same, I made the point that I am old school, and I made the specific point of "smoothness, grace and speed" which I blend into Wing Chun. The specifics of that is best demonstrated then trying to explain, that is why I said I would make a video in the near future.

 

[Flying Crane]

As you stated

I stated in my posting, I am old school, so of course I am speaking traditional. I did not state which method because I wanted the focus to be clearly just the smoothness, grace and speed, and in what way that can help your movements.

Old school can mean many things, and is often used to imply a severity in training that is no longer seen today. That term could be used to describe the training in Modern Wushu as well. You are only a few years older than I, and I began martial training in 1984, when Modern Wushu was already very well established. So “Old School” does not imply anything to me, in terms of what you are referring to.

Further, you mentioned Wing Chun specifically, but then say you are blending with “wushu”. To me, that suggests you mean Modern Wushu.

I am honestly confused and am simply trying to get clarity on what you are talking about.

 

[Flying Crane]

I am not exactly sure in what your un-clear about, you stated "many forms of traditional wushu also have smoothness and speed and grace", the main point in my posting is how this can help your movements. If traditional and modern Wushu are the same then how is it relevant to the point I was making? But, even if they are not the same, I made the point that I am old school, and I made the specific point of "smoothness, grace and speed" which I blend into Wing Chun. The specifics of that is best demonstrated then trying to explain, that is why I said I would make a video in the near future.

Traditional and Modern wushu are absolutely not the same. And the specific methods of traditional wushu can vary tremendously. So specifically what it is that you are blending with wing Chun will matter a lot in the outcome.

Really, I am not trying to give you a hard time here. I am simply trying to understand what you are talking about, what you are doing.

Can you help me out?

 

[Yanli]

Traditional and Modern wushu are absolutely not the same. And the specific methods of traditional wushu can vary tremendously. So specifically what it is that you are blending with wing Chun will matter a lot in the outcome.

Really, I am not trying to give you a hard time here. I am simply trying to understand what you are talking about, what you are doing.

Can you help me out?

Ok, I posted what you stated about them being the same, if you noticed, I put the statement in parentheses. The best way for you to understand what I am expressing, is try doing the modern performing Wushu that you see on YouTube, the slow graceful ones, once you have learned to truly move gracefully, then try doing your strikes and blocks gracefully at full speed. You should find your movements quicker, more accurate, and more power. But make sure you first achieve the smoothness and grace, or you will not see much of a difference.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ok, I posted what you stated about them being the same, if you noticed, I put the statement in parentheses. The best way for you to understand what I am expressing, is try doing the modern performing Wushu that you see on YouTube, the slow graceful ones, once you have learned to truly move gracefully, then try doing your strikes and blocks gracefully at full speed. You should find your movements quicker, more accurate, and more power. But make sure you first achieve the smoothness and grace, or you will not see much of a difference.

So if I understand you correctly, you are blending wing Chun with Modern Wushu?

I personally have no interest in Modern Wushu. My first Sifu is also a coach of Modern Wushu, so I could have trained it if I had the interest. I made it clear to him that I was only interested in learning traditional wushu, and he always respected my interest and only taught me traditional wushu.

I do not put faith in learning through video as the primary source of instruction, so I am not going to try and learn modern wushu through YouTube.

My method has a specific training methodology for developing power and speed with technique. Modern wushu does not, because modern wushu is a performance art that has no interest in having an engine under the hood to develop power and speed with technique. Modern wushu is about learning to perform a martially-inspired physical routine that is aesthetically pleasing to an uneducated audience. It’s speed and grace and smoothness do not include understanding how to deliver effective power with viable technique.

Did you learn your modern wushu from YouTube, or did you study with a wushu team? For the record, modern wushu athletes are amazing and can be highly skilled. I respect those abilities a lot, they can reach a level of athleticism that rivals elite gymnasts. But they are not practicing a viable combat method.

 

[skribs]

Ok, I posted what you stated about them being the same, if you noticed, I put the statement in parentheses. The best way for you to understand what I am expressing, is try doing the modern performing Wushu that you see on YouTube, the slow graceful ones, once you have learned to truly move gracefully, then try doing your strikes and blocks gracefully at full speed. You should find your movements quicker, more accurate, and more power. But make sure you first achieve the smoothness and grace, or you will not see much of a difference.

Are you suggesting mastering stuff based on following along with Youtube videos?

 

[Yanli]

I was not aware that you study Wushu, I am glad to hear it. The only reason I suggested watching a YouTube video was so you could get an example of what I was stating. I am surprised though that your Shifu doe's not indicate how Wushu can benefit the speed and power in your movement. No I do not suggest learning from YouTube lol.

 

[Flying Crane]

I was not aware that you study Wushu, I am glad to hear it. The only reason I suggested watching a YouTube video was so you could get an example of what I was stating. I am surprised though that your Shifu doe's not indicate how Wushu can benefit the speed and power in your movement. No I do not suggest learning from YouTube lol.

Ok, since you continue to use the term in a non-specific way that is prone to confusion, I will clarify. I train traditional wushu, what we in the West commonly call kung fu. I do not and never have trained Modern Wushu.

The specific and only method of Traditional wushu that I train is Tibetan White Crane. In the past I also had experience with wing Chun, and a smattering of northern long fist and others.

He is no longer my Sifu, and he respected my interest in traditional wushu only and never tried to hide the fact that Modern wushu is not a viable martial method. He never tried to sell me on the idea that I should learn modern wushu, when my interest is with traditional. First, he wouldn’t try to deceive me in that way, and second, he knew I was smart enough to see through such a claim for the nonsense that it is.

 

[Yanli]

Ok, once again, I will clearly state that I am traditional, and the Wushu I refer to is also traditional, the modern I suggested you watch was for the sake of seeing what I was speaking of with smooth, graceful and speed. Hhhmmm, what nonsense are you exactly talking about?