Why We Love MMA ? Not me...

[MA-Caver]

Watching this compilation video of various fights and fighters, I've developed an opinion of the "sport" of MMA. Watch the video first please then read on.
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Basically what I saw was a "for real" version of the so called "Professional Wrestling" matches. Guys strutting down a ramp, prancing before a crowd/fans, confetti raining down and all the pomp and showbiz glitz that goes with the faked version of it all.
Granted it's for real, real blood, real pain, real hits/kicks and all that. Yet extraordinarily violent brutal and ... imo... unnecessary feeding of a bloodlust that was best suited for gladiatorial games in ancient Rome.

To my eyes nothing more than professional highly trained street fighting.

I'll pass thank you.

Sorry to offend anyone who is into it like a fan would be.
To me it does away with the essence of Martial Arts and only showcases the brutality of it.
Or maybe I just don't understand what all I'm seeing.

Your thoughts?

 

[Archangel M]

The "Essence of Martial Arts"?

It's essence...it's foundation is in the killing of human beings. Hence "Martial".

All these "touchy-feely" add-ons are a fairly recent innovation IMO.

Not that I disagree with the over-commercialization, WWE/Boxing Hype and "Thug" attitude that you see from some competitors and promoters.

 

[Joab]

I do my best to ignore it.

 

[Joab]

The "Essence of Martial Arts"?

It's essence...it's foundation is in the killing of human beings. Hence "Martial".

All these "touchy-feely" add-ons are a fairly recent innovation IMO.

Not that I disagree with the over-commercialization, WWE/Boxing Hype and "Thug" attitude that you see from some competitors and promoters.

It's traditonally been far more dignified than UFC and the like, with bowing and respect and honor held to be very important. You don't see any of that in the UFC, certainly not in the commercials. I see martial arts as more life insurance than anything, something I hope to never have to use, but if I do I would rather not lose.

 

[Tez3]

Judging MMA by that video is like judging TKD by the Olympics.

thats not our MMA that's for sure.

 

[WhiteLotus]

Watching this compilation video of various fights and fighters, I've developed an opinion of the "sport" of MMA. Watch the video first please then read on.
[yt]jVC6nm0bLxY[/yt]

Basically what I saw was a "for real" version of the so called "Professional Wrestling" matches. Guys strutting down a ramp, prancing before a crowd/fans, confetti raining down and all the pomp and showbiz glitz that goes with the faked version of it all.
Granted it's for real, real blood, real pain, real hits/kicks and all that. Yet extraordinarily violent brutal and ... imo... unnecessary feeding of a bloodlust that was best suited for gladiatorial games in ancient Rome.

To my eyes nothing more than professional highly trained street fighting.

I'll pass thank you.

Sorry to offend anyone who is into it like a fan would be.
To me it does away with the essence of Martial Arts and only showcases the brutality of it.
Or maybe I just don't understand what all I'm seeing.

Your thoughts?

I agree I do not get impressed with the MMa stuff.

You made a point they showcase the brutality and bloodlust etc. They seem to do away with the "art" part. it is not martial "arts", but martial sport, cage fighting. Really it is still a sport also, the combative aspect is missing in the ring as it should be obvious. They are not allowed to do many things in the ring that would be second nature to many martial artist in real combat.

But I will say, at times we see some traditional fighting in tere, like the jujitsu guys and and few good moves.

But for the most part, sport street fighting, one step more real from the fake wrestling shows, as I see it.

yes these men can fight and they are rough etc. But as far as being the "ultimate fighters?" NO I don't think so.

 

[Tez3]

I agree I do not get impressed with the MMa stuff.

You made a point they showcase the brutality and bloodlust etc. They seem to do away with the "art" part. it is not martial "arts", but martial sport, cage fighting. Really it is still a sport also, the combative aspect is missing in the ring as it should be obvious. They are not allowed to do many things in the ring that would be second nature to many martial artist in real combat.

But I will say, at times we see some traditional fighting in tere, like the jujitsu guys and and few good moves.

But for the most part, sport street fighting, one step more real from the fake wrestling shows, as I see it.

yes these men can fight and they are rough etc. But as far as being the "ultimate fighters?" NO I don't think so.

And here we go around again..... TMA v MMA.
Don't you guys ever get fed up being on your high horses all the time?

By all means judge MMA by a couple of fights if it makes all of you feel happier, nothing I can say anymore will convince you lot to open your closed minds.
By the way I don't go posting on all the other sections how much I think their art sucks.....which I don't actually.

:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse :deadhorse:deadhorse :deadhorse

 

[Steve]

Watching this compilation video of various fights and fighters, I've developed an opinion of the "sport" of MMA. Watch the video first please then read on.
[yt]jVC6nm0bLxY[/yt]

Basically what I saw was a "for real" version of the so called "Professional Wrestling" matches. Guys strutting down a ramp, prancing before a crowd/fans, confetti raining down and all the pomp and showbiz glitz that goes with the faked version of it all.
Granted it's for real, real blood, real pain, real hits/kicks and all that. Yet extraordinarily violent brutal and ... imo... unnecessary feeding of a bloodlust that was best suited for gladiatorial games in ancient Rome.

To my eyes nothing more than professional highly trained street fighting.

I'll pass thank you.

Sorry to offend anyone who is into it like a fan would be.
To me it does away with the essence of Martial Arts and only showcases the brutality of it.
Or maybe I just don't understand what all I'm seeing.

Your thoughts?

You're entitled to your opinion, and not everyone should or needs to like MMA. But I do have a few comments about your post.

The video was a compilation of all of the action, and a lot of it was from Pride. The Japanese audience unabashedly promoted the Pro Wrestling mentality in their events, and where you saw dancing girls and most of the prancing around, it was in Pride. Not all promotions are the same. I haven't gone on to read the entire thread yet, but I'll be surprised if Tez doesn't point this out to you. (Tez: "The UFC isn't all of MMA." ) While I disagree with her to a point on this, I think that it's important to recognize what you're watching. Were I to compile all of the most brutal hits in any contact sport, be it the NFL, Rugby or whatever, it would lead to a skewed perspective.

I will say that I agree with you to a point, though, on this. I don't like the marketing, or the emphasis on violence. I think it's unnecessary and ultimately counterproductive.

Second, fighting is brutal. It's a combat sport and this won't appeal to everyone. Much of the popularity of MMA is due to the visceral authenticity of the combat. Instead of distilled, ritualized, and ultimately unrealistic action, the fighters train for efficiency.

In spite of this, it's much more civilized than most. Boxers die far more often than MMA'ists. Serious injuries are very uncommon and deaths almost unheard of in sanctioned events. There is more blood, which lends a superficial impression of violence that belies the statistical reality.

Once again, for the millionth time, most MMA'ists are also TMA'ists. Because you don't watch MMA, you don't know whether there is respect or any "art" in it. You're assuming not... hoping not, IMO.
I don't begrudge anyone doing what they enjoy, but the elitist attitude has to go.

Last thing, if you don't like MMA, fine. I really have no problem with it. But I encourage you to be educated about what you say you don't like. if you choose to have an opinion, at least be knowledgeable about it.

 

[Steve]

Judging MMA by that video is like judging TKD by the Olympics.

thats not our MMA that's for sure.

LOL... close, but I was sure you'd remind everyone that the UFC doesn't represent all of MMA.

 

[Tez3]

LOL... close, but I was sure you'd remind everyone that the UFC doesn't represent all of MMA.

Oooo I'm getting predictable lol!

To come onto the MMA section and post that you don't like our style and then start slagging it off is unpardonably ignorant and rude.

Stay away from MMA if you don't like it and don't wish to be open minded.
I'm really not going to be bothered answering attacks such as these.

I'm busy at the moment, we are organising two charity shows at the moment, one boxing then an MMA one, oh gosh two such brutal sports! (Oh my, I may just faint at the sight of the blood lol!) My daughter is fighting on the MMA one, amateur rules no head shots.(see kettlebell thread for her photos...she's cool!) she's originally, like me, Wado Ryu karate.


ROFL at 'sport street fighting" round here street fighting is a sport! Are we too rough for some people, oh dear,better get the cotton wool out!

Violence solves everything!!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Personally I enjoy watching MMA. It is a great sport and very, very exciting!
While many of the athletes participating in it come from MMA gyms or have a traditional martial arts background they are in the end athlete's. At the professional level they mimic or act like athletes from any professional sport and as the money flows in and their fame grows they act like any other professional athlete. (that is what they are after all) I see little difference from professional football, basketball, hockey, etc. It is in the end very similar with how they all act. Still the sport is fun and exciting to watch!

 

[MJS]

Sigh...please, lets not turn this into a bash fest ok?

As for the OPs question....First off, todays MMA is much safer than what we saw in the early UFC days. Seems to me, with the sanctions and everything else the UFC follows, fighter safety is pretty high up there. Now, I say UFC because seeing that there're many different organizations, I dont want to speak for all of them, just the one that I'm most familiar with.

Second, as for the so called strutting down a ramp, ala WWE style...well, think about it, pretty much every sports event, ie: baseball, football, basketball, boxing, you name it, you will see each respective team entering in their own unique way.

Third, calling it brutal, I think is a bit much. If we think about it, ALL martial arts training has the potential to be brutal, so if brutal is too much, perhaps those that think that, should invest their time in something other than MA training. Yes, and the thought of 3 or 4 or 5 300lb guys dog piling on 1 person during a football game, gear or not, seems like it could be pretty brutal too, yet millions watch NFL.

Fourth, must I remind everyone that the UFC is on PPV, meaning that you have to pay to get it. Yes, its on some of the sports channels as well as Spike, however, if one isn't interested in watching it, simply dont turn on that channel. Its not like someone is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to watch it.

Just wanted to say this as well....personally, I enjoy watching the UFC and all of the other MMA fights as well. I have a few that were shot in Brazil, and rest assure, they are much more brutal than what we're seeing here, with less of a laundry list of UFC type rules. Yes, there are rules, but not nearly as many as we see here in the states.

 

[TheWellWisher]

Yeah gotta admit, I'm not a big fan of MMA. I do like watching MA vs MA (eg. Karate vs TKD), some people don't agree with that either though...

 

[Tez3]

Yeah gotta admit, I'm not a big fan of MMA. I do like watching MA vs MA (eg. Karate vs TKD), some people don't agree with that either though...

Aha, we'll soon change that lol! Get yourself up here in December and I'll give you a ringside seat and you'll walk away a fan I promise!!

 

[MJS]

Yeah gotta admit, I'm not a big fan of MMA. I do like watching MA vs MA (eg. Karate vs TKD), some people don't agree with that either though...

Well, back in the day, thats what it was like. That, I believe, was the goal of Rorian...to showcase various arts against each other. Today, everyone is doing the same thing, so its more of a person vs. person fight. The better man will win that day.

 

[TheWellWisher]

Okay cool I'll take you up on that one then Tez lol

 

[Tez3]

Okay cool I'll take you up on that one then Tez lol

No worries, keep December 5th free! Should have some fighters from over the Pennines on you can shout for!

 

[K831]

Watching this compilation video of various fights and fighters, I've developed an opinion of the "sport" of MMA Basically what I saw was a "for real" version of the so called "Professional Wrestling" matches. Guys strutting down a ramp, prancing before a crowd/fans, confetti raining down and all the pomp and showbiz glitz that goes with the faked version of it all.

I don’t have a problem with professional wrestling. It’s not my cup of tea, but I won’t deny that those guys are often very athletic, and that some serious work goes into the routines, choreography and theatrics. Pro wrestling only becomes annoying with the fans can’t see it for what it is.
Same goes for MMA. They are tremendous athletes and the sport becomes more technical all the time. Skill levels continually rise, and the sport moves further away from the unskilled brawling that we would sometimes see and closer to highly strategic sport combat with every event.
I think there are many fighters who are respectful and humble. Many of them love their country of origin and their root styles, weather they started in TMA or come from an MMA background. Some of the best in the game come to every fight wearing the Gi and patches of their TMA. Good for them.
There are also some classless, arrogant competitors and promoters…..and fans. That’s too bad, and it reflects poorly on the sport, but I don’t think it is indicative of all involved – in fact I know it’s not, as my Kenpo school shares the facility with a BBJ/Muay Thai coach who trains MMA fighters. My younger brothers compete and I work with them on their striking as Kenpo has much to offer an MMA fighter, and I have been boxing/wrestling for a while now. Lot of good folks in the sport.

Yet extraordinarily violent brutal and ... imo... unnecessary feeding of a bloodlust that was best suited for gladiatorial games in ancient Rome.

I don’t understand this. My 16 year old brother plays HS football. He also does boxing/kickboxing and BJJ. He competes as a grappler and will compete in MMA competitions when he is 18. I don’t see a difference in brutality and if anything, the injuries suffered by football players are typically more serious. My 24 yr old brother is currently competing in MMA. He has never sustained an injury as serious as the injuries we both sustained snowboarding and racing motocross. I have known many football players, rugby players and soccer players who INTENTIONALLY made dangerous tackles intended to hurt other players. This is no different than your occasional and rare MMA competitor who takes similar action.

Sorry to offend anyone who is into it like a fan would be.

To me it does away with the essence of Martial Arts and only showcases the brutality of it.
Or maybe I just don't understand what all I'm seeing.

Some will be offended, I am not. It showcases some brutality to be sure, and I understand why that doesn’t sit well with some. Fair enough. I don’t think the entire essence of martial arts is lost in MMA competitions. That depends a lot on the individual competitors. I see a lot of mutual respect and sportsmanship. I think you understand what you are seeing, you just aren’t seeing all of it.

I agree I do not get impressed with the MMa stuff.

I guess it depends on what types of things impress you. To use UFC fighters as an example; the sheer athleticism of GSP and the continuous improvement and refinement of his unique style impresses me. His dead on game plans built around each individual opponent impresses me.

The work ethic and dedication of Randy Coture impresses me. The man is what, 46? I only hope to be as game, fit and rugged when I am that age. The fight between him and Nog recently showed tremendous skill and heart form both men, as well as mutual respect. Neither man wanted to “harm” the other, but both men were excited to test their mettle against an opponent that neither took lightly. Randy is always ready to fight someone who posses unique challenges because he loves the “strategy”. Impressive.

The millisecond timing/counter punching of Anderson Silva…his near perfect control of distance? Impressive.

Lyoto Machida’s quiet, humble personality, family and training camp. His respect for and use of his family’s TMA, his control of distance, timing and use of angles… impressive.

Really it is still a sport also, the combative aspect is missing in the ring as it should be obvious. They are not allowed to do many things in the ring that would be second nature to many martial artist in real combat.

yes these men can fight and they are rough etc. But as far as being the "ultimate fighters?" NO I don't think so.

Agreed. But this is only a problem if MMA’ist fail to realize it. Some do. Some swear that MMA competitions are as real as street fighting. Many in the MMA community don’t see the failures of their training when it comes to real SD. (and some TMA'ist and CQC guys fail to see what MMA as to offer for real SD) That is and will be an ongoing argument.

 

[Skpotamus]

Ya know, I had this exact discussion with someone the other day (A TKD student someone brought to class). They didn't like our use of grappling techniques and submissions as they felt they weren't realistic, which lead to a demonstration of their effectiveness and ultimately turned to a discussion on mma.

They pointed out how brutal MMA is, I pointed out how boxing, football and basketball have contributed to more serious injuries and deaths in the united states and world wide. I also pointed out that Judo, an olympic sport, has a lot more injuries during tournies than I've seen in all the MMA matches I've ever gone to.

He pointed to how MMA departs from the traditional values of martial arts, I pointed out that originally martial arts were designed for use on a battlefield for KILLING your opponents and that most of the "traditional values" related to spiritualism were added by old soldiers after their military careers as a way of dealing with the brutality of the wars they'd seen. but weren't a part of what they were originally taught or taught before their military careers (Ueyshiba especially).

He pointed at how sloppy the fighters looked technique wise. I pointed out that each sport you were comparing the fighters to (boxing, kickboxing, TKD, etc) all had rules that reinforced how they could utilize their techniques which changes what tactics and techniques they can use. No other style has to deal with standup striking and grappling attacks, this alone alters their functional striking skill set. Take away the referees in olympic TKD or boxing to break up the clinches that happen constantly and you'd end up with very different matches and subsequent art changes to deal with the new rule set. I also pointed out how he was looking at the sport with blinders regarding techniques. He was looking solely at it from a striking perspective, but when you added in some grappling knowledge, the fights look a lot more technical and you can understand why they don't use as many jump spin kicks, boxing from head to head range, etc.

He talked about the poor attitude of mma fighters, I pointed out that most MMA fighters are respectful and humble (GSP, machida, Anderson Silva, Dan Henderson, Randy Couture, Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt, etc), I then pointed out the olympic TKD'er who got upset with a referee's call and kicked that referee in the face during the olympics, or about Bernie Krasnoo getting banned from point fighting competitions for throwing chairs and starting riots when one of his guys loses a match (on multiple occasions). Then pointed to Brian Johnston getting his nose broken by a referee in a UFC tourny and not reacting violently (he protested but didn't get physical, even after getting a broken nose by the ref). You can isolate certain people with bad attitudes in ANY sport or art, but that doesn't mean the rest, or even majority, are jerks.

Most people seem to have a chip on their shoulder regarding MMA based on a preconceived notion that MMA people have a chip on their shoulders, whether that chip exists or not. I think it stems from the original marketing of GJJ by Rorian Gracie as trying to prove his style was the best.

When people have preconceived notions about MMA and certain styles and they talk about them without actually knowing anything about it there's not much you can do about it. Trying to convince them they are wrong or just that you aren't wrong is almost impossible.

 

[Xinglu]

When people have preconceived notions about MMA and certain styles and they talk about them without actually knowing anything about it there's not much you can do about it. Trying to convince them they are wrong or just that you aren't wrong is almost impossible.

Don't confuse me with facts and reason, my mind is already made up!

I look at it like this, I love football. I can't stand Terrell Owens or that Chad Johnson guy. They detract from the sport, are poor sportsman, and despite being highly talented they don't make their team better because of the controversy they bring. MMAist are the same way. Most are great people, but some attract the most publicity and they are not good people. Not good representations of what most MMAist are. IT is the one bad apple ruining it for the bunch.

The difference here is that the NFL punishes the bad apples. Dana White and other promoters (like Pride) don't really punish these guys for being unprofessional or thuggish, in some cases it seems encouraged. That is my ONLY complaint.