Why Traditional Karate Is Not Effective for Self-Defense

[pdg]

This is why if I wanted someone to believe a plane flies. I can show them a flying plane.


I don't have to convince people with clever rationalisation. Because that works against the idea that a great hunk of steel can fly.

There's not much steel at all in an aeroplane...

But apart from that, this is an interesting point.

I can look at data and say that an aeroplane can fly because the engines provide enough thrust to move it fast enough for the wings to provide sufficient lift (due to the shape being effectively half a venturi that causes a depression above the wing) for it to fly.

I don't need to see a flying aeroplane to believe that they can fly, because I have enough related theoretical knowledge to understand and accept the process.


So, TMA in a fight situation?

 

[drop bear]

There's not much steel at all in an aeroplane...

But apart from that, this is an interesting point.

I can look at data and say that an aeroplane can fly because the engines provide enough thrust to move it fast enough for the wings to provide sufficient lift (due to the shape being effectively half a venturi that causes a depression above the wing) for it to fly.

I don't need to see a flying aeroplane to believe that they can fly, because I have enough related theoretical knowledge to understand and accept the process.


So, TMA in a fight situation?

Yes. But most people don't have the grounding to understand how a plane flies.

Or how a fight works.

And gets the theoretical knowledge wrong.

For example giving too much weight to the idea that a system that is successful within a rule set is somehow not successful when the rules are removed.

And not enough weight towards the idea that is successful in a context. Is at least successful somewhere.

 

[hoshin1600]

im just wondering ...if MMA is the only thing that actually works, what have people been doing for the last few thousand years? you know before the 1990's when MMA was invented.

 

[hoshin1600]

For example giving too much weight to the idea that a system that is successful within a rule set is somehow not successful when the rules are removed.

but TKD is very successful within its rule set. so would it be any different than your MMA argument?

 

[JR 137]

That top one, the one with the two guys in black gis? I'm practicing that whole RiverDance combo move right now. It is sooo the balls.

Figuratively and literally

 

[drop bear]

but TKD is very successful within its rule set. so would it be any different than your MMA argument?

Yeah. So you look at TKD. And break down all the situations where it is successful.

If TKD gets to a stand up range where they can engage in kicks they will probably win that exchange. So in a self defence curcumstance you could get to a kick range and be reasonably expected to win the exchange from there.

Just like if a BJJer gets you on the deck or a boxer gets in punching range.

This is fairly predictably in any curcumstance. This isnt street sport. Just a dynamic that will happen anywhere.

So if a red hot TKDer fights a red hot MMAer. Kicks are probably going to be the deciding factor.

Now if you look at MMA there are just more situations that a person can be succseful at. And so it gives a better indication of a persons overall ability.

Lets compare this with self defense only. And karate cos that is the thread.

This is being succesful in no situations what so ever. Because there is no self defence scenario where a person will atack you with a prearranged attack and then let you tee off on them.

 

[drop bear]

im just wondering ...if MMA is the only thing that actually works, what have people been doing for the last few thousand years? you know before the 1990's when MMA was invented.

I know right.

This mostly.

and this if you were ethnic.

These two guys were legitimately responsible for most of the hard men and gangsters before MMA.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

im just wondering ...if MMA is the only thing that actually works, what have people been doing for the last few thousand years? you know before the 1990's when MMA was invented.

Take that statement with a grain of salt. Only MMA guys are saying that.

 

[Steve]

The actual data ive seen leads to two conclusions. First is that physical fighting skills are not essential to practical self defense . two, if you want to learn to fight, competitive sports are the most reliable, accessible and consistent way to do this. Everything else is anecdotal.

 

[Hanzou]

im just wondering ...if MMA is the only thing that actually works, what have people been doing for the last few thousand years? you know before the 1990's when MMA was invented.

MMA has been around for thousands of years. The mixing of regional styles, challenge matches, and bitter competition between different schools of martial arts isn't anything new.

 

[now disabled]

MMA has been around for thousands of years. The mixing of regional styles, challenge matches, and bitter competition between different schools of martial arts isn't anything new.

The claim could be made by your statement then .............that all martial Arts are MMA ...........and according to your other threads MMA is the best !!! so .......are we again not twisting things to suit what you rely to and in different threads?

 

[Martial D]

im just wondering ...if MMA is the only thing that actually works, what have people been doing for the last few thousand years? you know before the 1990's when MMA was invented.

The same stuff. MMA is just martial arts boiled down. People have been doing mui thai forever, wrestling forever, striking and grappling forever. Hell, pankration is basically MMA and it was the very first Olympic sport if I'm not mistaken.

 

[now disabled]

The same stuff. MMA is just martial arts boiled down. People have been doing mui thai forever, wrestling forever, striking and grappling forever. Hell, pankration is basically MMA and it was the very first Olympic sport if I'm not mistaken.

Funnily enough I do get your point there lol ....what I would ask is the current MMA was that not boiled down for a specific purpose in mind ...ie competition?

 

[Hanzou]

The claim could be made by your statement then .............that all martial Arts are MMA ...........and according to your other threads MMA is the best !!! so .......are we again not twisting things to suit what you rely to and in different threads?

Technically yes. Choy Li Fut is a MMA, but it isn't modern MMA. That's the difference.

 

[now disabled]

Technically yes. Choy Li Fut is a MMA, but it isn't modern MMA. That's the difference.

You really must either be a walking encyclopedia on MA you know all these styles and arts you keep quoting ...or google is red hot lol

 

[Martial D]

Funnily enough I do get your point there lol ....what I would ask is the current MMA was that not boiled down for a specific purpose in mind ...ie competition?

Someone else mentioned that far too muh emphasis is placed on this, and I agree. A lot of people seem to think there is this wide divide between fighting in a cage or ring and fighting in 'the street'. There really isn't. In fact, a cage is worse, because in 'the street' an altercation is generally a couple of blows, that might not even land, that is usually broken up, or at the very least stops when the aggressor gets tired which happens rather quickly for most people that don't fight much.

Contrasted with a cage where both parties will continue to be aggressive until the fight ends in one fighter being stopped by the other, or the 15-20 mins runs out. No street fight lasts 15 or 20 mins.

Sure, there is a limited set of extra tools. Nut shots, biting, scratching, eye pokes etc but none of that will be an advantage when its available to both parties.

So in short, to answer your question, it's already boiled down to 'fighting' That you can compete at fighting is really a side note.

 

[now disabled]

Someone else mentioned that far too muh emphasis is placed on this, and I agree. A lot of people seem to think there is this wide divide between fighting in a cage or ring and fighting in 'the street'. There really isn't. In fact, a cage is worse, because in 'the street' an altercation is generally a couple of blows, that might not even land, that is usually broken up, or at the very least stops when the aggressor gets tired which happens rather quickly for most people that don't fight much.

Contrasted with a cage where both parties will continue to be aggressive until the fight ends in one fighter being stopped by the other, or the 15-20 mins runs out. No street fight lasts 15 or 20 mins.

Sure, there is a limited set of extra tools. Nut shots, biting, scratching, eye pokes etc but none of that will be an advantage when its available to both parties.

So in short, to answer your question, it's already boiled down to 'fighting' That you can compete at fighting is really a side note.

I do get your point ...maybe we just look at it form different angles

I guess it cause I just really don't have much interest in the cage fighting scene I just look on things differently

 

[Martial D]

I do get your point ...maybe we just look at it form different angles

I guess it cause I just really don't have much interest in the cage fighting scene I just look on things differently

I can respect that.

I don't either as a matter of fact. Im way too old to get in there with those young bulls.

I just have a love for the martial sciences and the fighting game.

 

[now disabled]

I can respect that.

I don't either as a matter of fact. Im way too old to get in there with those young bulls.

I just have a love for the martial sciences and the fighting game.

My advice and it is not being nasty is what a teacher of mine told me ....look beyond ...look to each side ...look behind...look under every tech as when you have done that then you may (I not meaning you ) understand ...if not then ask and then do it again until you see the what where and why ......and some things may surprise

 

[Martial D]

My advice and it is not being nasty is what a teacher of mine told me ....look beyond ...look to each side ...look behind...look under every tech as when you have done that then you may (I not meaning you ) understand ...if not then ask and then do it again until you see the what where and why ......and some things may surprise

Oh, I find new stuff all the time. Martial arts is mostly one big extended family tree, I learned not to get hung up on styles a couple whiles ago. There are ways of striking, ways of grappling, and ways of moving. That's really it.

I just forgo things that don't seem to work until I see them work, or even better, feel them work on me, and at that point try to assimilate them into my game if I can. Pretty much the same thing most modern martial artists do I guess.