Why the 9-11 conspiracies won't go away...

[Makalakumu]

I actually was wondering from the very first post how long it would take for the thread to go from talking about why conspiracy theories won't go away to arguing about the conspiracy itself. Didn't talk long

I think that it is still on topic though. Think about it. The conspiracies won't go away because of the information that is present. The arguments are compelling and the government's official conspiracy theory is so full of holes.

For example, here are two videos that compile the work of various scientists as they studied and attempted to check the government's theories explaining WTC 1 and WTC 2 collapse.

Part One
Part Two

This will take about an hour to view and there are alot of scientific details so you need to be on your toes and listen closely. Grab a cup of coffee.

The bottom line is that the end result is stunning. The government's official investigation into the collapse of the Buildings 1 and 2 is wrong on every single point. Their own experiments disprove their own theories and the only way they could get the results THAT THEY WANTED was to use a computer and exaggerate all of the perameters. All of this is explicitly laid out in the 10,000 pages of the NIST report.

This is why these theories are not only sticking around, but they are gaining more support each day. When you just take the time to look at the evidence and the government's explanation for that evidence, you realize that what the government claims is impossible.

Therefore, other, more plausible and scientific, explanations must be considered.

 

[tradrockrat]

Well to paraphrase my friend Duck (MDW Special Rescue Engineering Co) -

"I don't know, maybe it was a cruise missle, but if it was it was well hidden under the plane parts and burned bodies I had to get around when I was busy putting out fires and reinforcing the burned out walls."


Just ask someone who was there.

I noticed none of the people who agree with the conspiracy theorists have adressed my original post...

My friend and his coworkers are not high ups in the government, they're just guys doing a job and they were there and they saw what they saw. Their presence there is indisputable fact. They all saw the same things - It would be impossible to shut these gys up entirely short of killing them all and they are alll alive and well.

AND THEY SAW AIRPLANE PARTS AND BODY PEICES

If you all want to sit on your computers and talk crap about things you never saw and in no way are qualified to discuss (every single thing you know about this is through second / third / fourth hand accounts if they are even based on accounts at all) intelligently then go right ahead and build your sand castles of conspiracy to make you feel better about your negative beliefs of this (admitedly pathetic) administration. Go ahead. Enjoy. But to people like Duck and others who were actually there, you're just a bunch of chickens claiming the sky is falling.

Oh yeah - my anecdote is unprovable as fact so it doesn't count, right?

Or Maybe Duck and all his coworkers are plants to spread disinformation to the masses.

Gee this is fun! I can make up any excuse I want and nobody can stop me or prove me wrong! Verbal Masturbation at its finest! I'm going to read a sci-fi novel for more ideas...

Actually, I'll just stop posting now on this thread so that others can enjoy their fantasies

 

[FearlessFreep]

Think about it. The conspiracies won't go away because of the information that is present. The arguments are compelling and the government's official conspiracy theory is so full of holes.

Just can't help yourself, can you?

 

[Makalakumu]

AND THEY SAW AIRPLANE PARTS AND BODY PEICES

All of the No Plane Theories are probably BS. Anybody who is anybody who is doing any real research on them doesn't focus much on them except to ask for the release of the video tapes that show the planes hitting the pentagon. There are other, far more important and measureable things that can be looked at and studied.

The bottom line is that people really did die in these attacks and many people saw what they saw, heard what they heard...including explosions in the world trade towers BEFORE the planes hit and after the planes hit on floors that were not even burning.

Just take a look at the presentation I posted.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I think that it is still on topic though. Think about it. The conspiracies won't go away because of the information that is present. The arguments are compelling and the government's official conspiracy theory is so full of holes.

For example, here are two videos that compile the work of various scientists as they studied and attempted to check the government's theories explaining WTC 1 and WTC 2 collapse.

Part One
Part Two

This will take about an hour to view and there are alot of scientific details so you need to be on your toes and listen closely. Grab a cup of coffee.

The bottom line is that the end result is stunning. The government's official investigation into the collapse of the Buildings 1 and 2 is wrong on every single point. Their own experiments disprove their own theories and the only way they could get the results THAT THEY WANTED was to use a computer and exaggerate all of the perameters. All of this is explicitly laid out in the 10,000 pages of the NIST report.

This is why these theories are not only sticking around, but they are gaining more support each day. When you just take the time to look at the evidence and the government's explanation for that evidence, you realize that what the government claims is impossible.

Therefore, other, more plausible and scientific, explanations must be considered.

You were already spanked on this one foil boy.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30749

Give it a rest.

 

[Makalakumu]

Just can't help yourself, can you?

Maybe.

Just take a look at the presentation I posted. That is the reason why this stuff won't go away. That is the reason why this movement is growing.

 

[Makalakumu]

You were already spanked on this one foil boy.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30749

Give it a rest.

Foil boy?

Nice.

btw - anyone who reads that thread is going to see something different. Especially if they have some basic physics under their belt.

 

[FearlessFreep]

No, the reason it "won't go away" is because people want it to be true, for many of the reasons the article said, and ironically you are providing a perfect case study, which is what 've found so amusing over the last few days.

There are a lot of conspiracies that "won't go away" , such as the fake moon landings, JFK's Assasination, Vince Foster, Lincoln's Assasination, Atlantis, Pyramids and Aliens. Some just get more attention or action because they involve more current events or more relevant events. It has nothing to do with whether they are true or not (some may be true, or not...it's actually irrelevant) and everything about people's desires for them to be true, for various reasons.

 

[Makalakumu]

No, the reason it "won't go away" is because people want it to be true...

First of all, take a look at the presentation.

Second of all, why on earth would anyone want this to be true? I think that anyone who says that people want this to be true truly doesn't understand how terrible something like this really is, if it is true.

This is my home. I've lived here all of my life. Grew up in this system. Benefitted from this system. I want my own kids to have what I have. To enjoy the legacy and the institutions of this place that I call home.

Jay, if this is true, none of that is possible, because the system is broken. If something like this can happen, all of our institutions have been corrupted far beyond what anyone in their wildest dreams expected. If this is true, it undermines all of the trust that is so essential for our system to work at all. If this is true, then all of our hopes and dreams for our future are uncertain.

Why would anyone want that?

The answer is that nobody wants that. And, to take this further, we can reverse psychoanalyze this by saying, "the reason people argue against this is because they subconsciously recoil from the implications of this thing."

In the end, the armchair psychology is nothing but an excuse for not doing the real work that logical reasoning takes. If you want to understand this stuff, you've got to look at the evidence and trust what your own eyes are seeing.

 

[Don Roley]

With all of this in mind and considering the government faked the first Bin Laden tape, the one where Al Qaeda takes credit, and suppressed the real first Bin Laden tapes, the ones were he claims that Al Qaeda was not involved, it is not a stretch to consider the possibility that this is a well crafted peice of propaganda.

The goverment did not fake any tapes.They could not suppress any tapes. Osama Bin Laden has been giving tapes through his contacts to Al-Jeezera for years. It is him on the tapes. The goverment can't suppress the internet or Al-Jezera- unless you think that they are part of the CIA now.

When you have Al-queda figures give speaches in front of photos of the attacks, and urge people to commit attacks on Americans for the anniversery of the attacks, have Bin Laden admit it on tape and everything else- there is no way a rational mind can think that they were blamed for something they did not do.

 

[Kreth]

The goverment can't suppress the internet...

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Al Gore invented it, after all...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

 

[Blotan Hunka]

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/afdbdiagram.pdf LOL!

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Top 4 Arguments Against A 911 Conspiracy

1) Lack of concrete proof. CTers rely mostly on pointing out things that are (in their opinions) fishy about the official story - hense the nonsence about cell phones, passenger manifiests etc. What gets lost in this flurry of "holes" is that CTers have NO solid proof in favour of their theories.

2) Lack of expert endorsement. The fact that no structural engineers IN THE WHOLE WORLD agrees with the controlled demo theory should be a tip off that something doesn't add up for the CTers. Needing the likes of Fetzer, Jones and Wood to bolster their case is another.

3) Lack of whistleblowers. Clinton can't hide a blowjob, Bush can't hide WMD distortions (don't you think he would have planted some?) and the CIA leaks like a sieve. Yet NO 9/11 conspirators have spilled the beans. Hmmmm....

4) Conspiacy theories can't agree on anything! If the "truth" was as obvious as they claim it is then why can't CTers come to some agreement on what it is? They can't agree on what hit the Pentagon, what hit the WTC, what happened to flight 93, where the passengers are or whether the whole thing was pulled off by Arab mercenaries, Bush, or the Jews. In the mind of CTers this simply proves what freethinkers they are; when it fact it simply serves as a glowing example of just how messed up the theory is. They regularly accuse eachother of being "agents" for crying out loud!

 

[Blotan Hunka]

9-11 Conspiracy Cereal: A Few Nuts and a Bunch of Flakes

Even my own experiences on 9-11 have been called into question by conspiracy nuts.

As many of you know, I was in Washington, DC on September 11, 2001 and saw American Airlines Flight 77 fly overhead and hit the Pentagon. I was closer to the aircraft than I was to the Pentagon, and within seconds of it racing past me, it exploded in a deep red fireball. My original account from that day can be found here: Eyewitness to Tragedy.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

FACT... Not a single Institute of Civil Engineers on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single of Institute Structural Engineers on the Planet agree with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Fire and Safety Engineers on the Planet agree with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Demolition Engineers on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Architects on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Engineers in any field on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

Nobody, not a single institute of engineers in the world agrees with the controlled demolition theory, Every single professional institute of Engineers from everywhere, including Russia, China, Germany, the rest of Europe, the entire planet agree with NIST.

They do not investigate the controlled demolition theory, because they all agree with the progressive collapse theory.

 

[Makalakumu]

FACT... Not a single Institute of Civil Engineers on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single of Institute Structural Engineers on the Planet agree with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Fire and Safety Engineers on the Planet agree with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Demolition Engineers on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Architects on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

FACT...Not a single Institute of Engineers in any field on the Planet agrees with the controlled demolition theory.

Nobody, not a single institute of engineers in the world agrees with the controlled demolition theory, Every single professional institute of Engineers from everywhere, including Russia, China, Germany, the rest of Europe, the entire planet agree with NIST.

They do not investigate the controlled demolition theory, because they all agree with the progressive collapse theory.

Watch the presentation and see for yourself. Then we can discuss the actual FACTS of this matter.

 

[Makalakumu]

The goverment did not fake any tapes.They could not suppress any tapes. Osama Bin Laden has been giving tapes through his contacts to Al-Jeezera for years. It is him on the tapes.

How do you know any of this? This is all an assumption on your part. And, yes, the first two Bin Laden tapes were not released in the US...they still have not been, for fear of "secret codes" hidden in them.

When you have Al-queda figures give speaches in front of photos of the attacks, and urge people to commit attacks on Americans for the anniversery of the attacks, have Bin Laden admit it on tape and everything else- there is no way a rational mind can think that they were blamed for something they did not do.

When you have facial recognition studies showing that certain tapes ARE NOT Osama Bin Laden, there is no way that a rational mind can place too much credit in any of the tapes.

Use your own eyes and your own brain...

 

[jazkiljok]

that is eye-opening... so what do you think? when did the Bush Administration and the Unilateral Commission get to Chomsky? or was he always a stooge?
:shrug:

 

[Don Roley]

How do you know any of this? This is all an assumption on your part. And, yes, the first two Bin Laden tapes were not released in the US...they still have not been, for fear of "secret codes" hidden in them.



When you have facial recognition studies showing that certain tapes ARE NOT Osama Bin Laden, there is no way that a rational mind can place too much credit in any of the tapes.

Use your own eyes and your own brain...

Are you basing your entire theory that Oasam Bin Laden has been working for the US goverment on that????

That was a joke, right? You can't seriously be basing the idea that all the tapes that have been released are fakes on things like Osama wearing a watcha and ring and the FBI never mentioned it in their poster! You can't think that Osama would not get out some tape to Al Jezeera or the internet if he was being blamed for something he did not do.

The type of evidence you base this huge theory on is the type of thing that comes from some kid that puts videos on a web site?