Why not a ko-ryu???

[MisterMike]

http://www.koryu.com/library/kbfaq.html#q4

Is ninjutsu or ninpo taijutsu considered to be a koryu?

As one aspect of the martial arts, the equivalent, more or less, of military intelligence, this is certainly a legitimate area of study, and techniques are included within the curricula of several comprehensive classical systems. But ninjutsu simply no longer exists as an independent ryu-ha or art. What is commonly taught as ninjutsu, in Japan and elsewhere, is a fairly recent collection of unarmed and weapons arts, two of which are independent koryu. This does not mean that these arts are not technically valid or that they don't have historical provenance. But, the modern arts taught as ninjutsu and ninpo or budo taijutsu (whichever version of the name you favor) cannot be considered koryu per se. For more information, we've assembled some other researchers' opinions on this question at "Ninjutsu: Is it koryu bujutsu?" For another point of view, see Ken Harding's "What is koryu?"

Dianne Skoss sums it up here:

http://www.koryu.com/library/ninjutsu.html

The art and those derived from it do not fall into our definition of the koryu bujutsu. Period.

...

However, if you come to us and ask whether we consider ninjutsu or the Bujinkan-derived arts to be koryu--well, we can only provide our honest opinion.

For another opinion, they link to:

http://business.fortunecity.com/johns/510/koryu.html

(A rather hard to read website with the bamboo wallpaper) but the author (Ken Harding) explains how some of the ryu-ha do qualify as koryu.

The term koryu bujutsu refers to martial arts of mainland Japan that originated sometime up to and including the Tokugawa period (1603-1868).

I guess my question is, what's Skoss' problem?

 

[Don Roley]

Short answer, Hatsumi had the chance to join their orginization and meet their standards of behavior and turned it down AND the way he does things just does not jibe with the way they do things.

 

[MisterMike]

OK - that figures

Thank you.

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

The only thing I can surmise is that the Bujinkan is not koryu, but the ryuha that comprise it are, but no one learns the ryu of the Bujinkan separately as an independent ryu anymore. Koryu ninjutsu still exists, but no one learns it as such.

That, and what Don said.