Ninpo Syllabus

[Bushi]

I recently was studying traditional Ninpo, when Shihan had to close the dojo. Now the only other dojo(s) in my city that seem to be close to what we were studying are the bujinkan ones. Is there a huge differece, do they encompass ninpo? And secondly, I know this sort of stuff wont be readily available on the net, but aside from searching old classmates, is there anyway of attaining ninpo syllabus, or is it instructor specific?

Thank You.

D

A compassionate heart will always overcome a sharp blade.

 

[Don Roley]

Since I am the local ogre, let me be blunt.

It sounds like your old dojo was one of the many frauds that tried to emulate what was done in the Bujinkan. Unless it was Genbukan, Jinenkan or something started by someone from those two schools, then the chances of your school having a link to Japan are pretty slim.

To answer your questions, different schools in the Bujinkan train in different ways and areas. It is hard to say what you will get off hand.

If I knew your old teacher's name and the name of his style I could be more specific, but I have seen cases like this time and time again. There is so much out there on Bujinkan training and so many people take those videos, etc and try to pass it off as their own with a few other things thrown in.

 

[Bushi]

As far as being a "fraud" I do not believe this is the case, as Shihan hardly charged us enough fees to pay the rent on the dojo. As well he has gifts from grandmasters hes has trained with in Japan, whom gave him his 5th dan. I beleive it was Hatsumoto, not sure. At any rate his name is Paul Lawrence. And he only ever referred to it as ninpo.(taijutsu,jujustu,bujutsu,ninjutsu).

D

 

[Bushi]

Please forgive me, I meant hatsumi, not hatsumoto. its late.

 

[Don Roley]

Yep, sounds like a fraud. Hatsumi is head of the Bujinkan. So if your teacher claims to have gotten a fifth dan from him but was not part of the Bujinkan it just smells like week old fish. There are fake certificates and such, and some people have gone to a single seminar with him just to get their picture taken with him. If he was not part of the Bujinkan but claimed to have gotten a fifth dan it is just too bizarre for words.

People do fraudulant things to build up their ego as well as their bank account sometimes. I have heard the same type of things said about Jack Stern and his lack of financial motive. Do a search here and find out just how big a fraud he is.

 

[Bushi]

have you ever heard of warrior hall international or academy of japanese martial arts? this is the name of the dojo. www.warriorhall.com is the website. still not totally convinced on the whole fraud thing. if you could give some more inpiut it would be greatly appreciated.

D

 

[Bushi]

As well, he has taught us such things as kenjutsu, jujutsu, daiken taijutsu, ect. he just seems to be too good and have too much knowlage to be a fake.

 

[Don Roley]

Taken from the site,

Mr. Lawrence has been graded at the Hombu Dojo in Japan to Seventh Dan, by Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi, and is certified as such.
Mr. Lawrence has also had the honour of training under Grandmaster Shoto Tanemura, has studied Judo and has Dan grades in Karate.

I do not know if this is true or not. But I can tell you that seventh dan is not all that great a rank in the Bujinkan nor is it an indicator of the person's knowledge of ninpo. I do not think you can call what he did traditional since it is probably just what he could peice together from his experiences.

But if you train in the Bujinkan, you will learn from the people who taught your teacher- if it is true.

he just seems to be too good and have too much knowlage to be a fake.

Are you an expert yourself? How can you say this if you are not? Every fraud has students who think they are too good to be a fraud. In this case, it seems like someone with a little experience in the Bujinkan, etc, putting together his own style.

 

[Bushi]

Now, if I venture into bujinkan, will my grading be accepted, or will i have to start as a beginner again?

 

[Don Roley]

Unless you have grading from the honbu in Japan, your rank is worthless.

 

[Bushi]

True, it does not bother me. Ii am only interested in gaining the knowlage and trying to become the best that I can in order to help others. I truly believe in the benevolent heart. And all that ninpo stands for. I assume that kihon hapo, and sanchin no kata are taught in the bujinkan discipline. As well the knowlage I have gained from Sensei Paul will not do me any harm in bujinkan.

 

[Bushi]

I assume.

p.s. please forgive any spelling error or mispronounciation.

D

 

[Bushi]

As well if some one could post the grading structure and advancement in ninpo/ninjutsu/bujinkan it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jibran]

It varies dojo to dojo but the "official ranks" (ranks issued by Hombu Dojo) are:
Green/Red Belt

Nine kyu ranks

Black Belt

10 dan ranks (with five levels of tenth degree)

Five levels of Judan
Judan Chi-i
Judan Sui-i
Judan Ka-i
Judan Fu-i
Judan Ku-i

After achieving Shodan, one can become a Shidoshi-Ho and teach but award ranks though a full instructor. After achieving Godan, one can become Shidoshi. Note that the Shidoshi licensing is not required unless one wants to teach; ie. you can be a judan and not have a teaching license because you elect not to teach.
Hope this helps,
Jibran

 

[Don Roley]

I forgot to welcome you Bushi to the Traditional Ninjutsu section in particular and Martialtalk in general.

I must warn you that your opinion that what you learned from your old teacher will not harm what you do in the Bujinkan may be a bit premature. You may find that your old teacher dropped or never knew certain important points and added certain things that may clash with how things are done in more standard Bujinkan dojos.

 

[Kreth]

I must warn you that your opinion that what you learned from your old teacher will not harm what you do in the Bujinkan may be a bit premature. You may find that your old teacher dropped or never knew certain important points and added certain things that may clash with how things are done in more standard Bujinkan dojos.

As an 8th kyu, I doubt he's had much time to develop too many bad habits, unlike someone like me...

Jeff

 

[Mountain Kusa]

Bushi, Did you get a certificate from your teacher?

 

[Bushi]

Thank you for your posts. This information has been very helpful. No i did not get a certificate from my sensei. However, I had a chance to breifly talk to the instructor at Bujinkan Tenchijin Dojo here in Calgary, and it would seem that based upon what they will determine from my previous teachings, I will probably not start at beginner level, and he said that Sensei Paul is recognised, only in a different school than Bujinkan(I did not catch the name).

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

I know you're so used to it, Don, but I think you jumped the gun when you brought out the F-word (fraud). The first thing I thought of when I saw the words "traditional" and "ninpo" in Bushi's post was =Genbukan.

A quick search on Paul Lawrence brings up mention of the Kurama Dojo which is a Genbukan Dojo.

Likely what happened, is Mr. Lawrence started in the Bujinkan, got his 5th dan - 7th dan from Hatsumi, then switched over to Genbukan.

It is still a bit fishy since on the website, Mr. Lawrence only credits Hatsumi for his rank and only mentions Tanemura in the sense of "...also had the honour of training under Grandmaster Shoto Tanemura."

So he might no longer be a member of the Bujinkan, but might also not yet have teaching credentials for Genbukan.

Bushi, do you know any more details on why he had to close the dojo?

"...he said that Sensei Paul is recognised, only in a different school than Bujinkan..."

He's probably recognized in Genbukan, but recognized as a student, or as an instructor?


Regardless of any of the above, if you have a Bujinkan dojo in the area, go there and train, I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

And yes, syllabi and curricula varies from instructor to instructor in the Bujinkan. I assume though that a Tenchijin Dojo would use the Tenchijin Ryaku no Maki as a training guide.

 

[Mountain Kusa]

Good luck with your training Bushi, Your instructors will probably watch you for awhile to see what kind of movement you have learned and then place you were it will be most beneficial to you. Dont throw away what you have already learned, but add to it. Train on what they are doing there, and then filter what you have already learned through that. Enjoy the path.