Why Krav Maga works

[TMA17]

wab25, I agree with you and that’s just awful. That really gives it a bad name and takes away from the good KM.

 

[TMA17]

The school I visited has instructors that trained under David Kahn.

They even emphasize on their website that “Because not all Krav Maga is the same...”

http://www.israelikrav.com/

 

[Tez3]

They even emphasize on their website that “Because not all Krav Maga is the same...”

Doesn't mean theirs is the good one though.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've just looked at the picture again, there is no impediment to a groin strike, it doesn't need to be all that hard to be effective, though you could generate a fair but if power just with a hammer strike

Yeah, in the picture, he's not doing anything.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Let me clarify. I don’t believe that in order to have good Krav the instructors have to be from Israel. I’m sure he too knows there are many other non Israeli instructors that are fantastic. I believe I heard this in an interview where he had mentioned that a good sign to look for is someone that has had some training there or with someone that did train there in the Israeli KM system. If I am wrong I apologize but that is what I believe he said.

That would be fine if there was good evidence that Israel only produces good KM instructors. My experience is it's never uniform like that.

 

[drop bear]

They spar at this Mrav school once a week.

Yeah I saw some of it and the sparring looks ok.

 

[drop bear]

It’s very practical and essentially is mixed martial arts. Israeli Krav such as this school borrows from various arts. You’ll never be extremely good at one thing, but it covers a good overall area.

Krav removes the sport element and just focuses on developing self defense attributes rapidly.

Also, the vast majority of people you would potentially encounter will not be good fighters.

In MMA, you’re training for a specific fight with a specific opponent in a controlled environment in a weight class. Don’t get me wrong, MMA is incredible for sport and learning how to fight.

you saw the video of our school doing jits In this thread?

Does that look like training for a specific opponant ina controlled environment in a weight class?

I know people say that. But most of the training really isn't that.

 

[drop bear]

While I agree but if KM is taught right IMO it’s one of the most practical means of self defense compared to traditional MA because you start applying what you’re learning right away. I never got this from traditional MA except years ago when I trained with a guy who blended western boxing with Bagua AKA Bagua Boxing. Not saying that with TMA you can’t but most of the time it takes a lot longer than the likes of KM.

How do you define longer to use though?

 

[drop bear]

Not exposed how exactly, the groin extends a fair way up you know, you don't need to be able to hit the genitals to cause a lot of damage

There was a video in relation to this where people tested actually groin hits during arm bars and such. And if you are about to win the groin shot doesn't deter that much.

which i can't find.

 

[drop bear]

We use gloves at the MMA gym. In Krav they teach with gloves but also lots of palm strikes.

Here is a scenario at one Krav school (not the one I visited). I don’t see how this is not good training? Full strength in wrestling just not punching.

“Tonight we ran, what in my humble opinion, was a great drill in our ground class. The defender would get on the ground and 1 attacker would put him in any type of ground control desired - side control, mount, scarf hold, etc. After 5 seconds of trying to get up/reverse a 2nd attacker would with 16oz gloves would start hitting the defender.

This completely changed the game for me. Instead of wrestling attacker #1 I had to position myself to reduce strikes to vulnerable areas like my head and try and keep the 2nd guy at bay until I could break out. I didn't have time to play chess w/attacker #1 I had to minimize damage while controlling the access attacker #2 had AND try and escape.

We did this at full strength wrestling power but very limited punching power.

Also I had an epiphany when I was attacker #1. Instead of defeating the defender on my own my goal was to get the defender in a vulnerable position so that my buddy attacker #2 could wail on his face.

Some really good lessons learned tonight. I look forward to doing this drill again. And again w/weapons.”

Can you do me a favor? Do that same drill in your mma class.

 

[TMA17]

Can you do me a favor? Do that same drill in your mma class.

That Krav video of them sparring is another school close by that is run by a guy that trained at the IKMA school in Cherry Hill. He was an MMA fighter I believe. He teaches at Mission MMA.

What would be the purpose of doing that same exact drill at the MMA school? Just asking. You're changing the dynamic of the group by doing so from being attacked by a bunch of trained MMA fighters to what you'd normally see in a real life scenario. Of course how hard they go at it would also change a lot of things too.

 

[TMA17]

This guy is good:

 

[jobo]

Yeah, in the picture, he's not doing anything.

If course he isnt, it's a piCture, people are still in pictures.

 

[macher]

Yeah I saw some of it and the sparring looks ok.

I like how he says don’t stay on the ground.

 

[macher]

How do you define longer to use though?

You learn a technique or form then learn how to apply it right away. Same way you would do in boxing with focus gloves, sparring etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You learn a technique or form then learn how to apply it right away. Same way you would do in boxing with focus gloves, sparring etc.

I don't think that's anything different from most TMA.

 

[drop bear]

That Krav video of them sparring is another school close by that is run by a guy that trained at the IKMA school in Cherry Hill. He was an MMA fighter I believe. He teaches at Mission MMA.

What would be the purpose of doing that same exact drill at the MMA school? Just asking. You're changing the dynamic of the group by doing so from being attacked by a bunch of trained MMA fighters to what you'd normally see in a real life scenario. Of course how hard they go at it would also change a lot of things too.

Normally you will get guys who know what they are doing who generally jump at the chance to throw an unfair beat down on a guy.

Which is the best way to train.

Because it looks like 2 people (or in this case 3 people) trying to win.

 

[drop bear]

You learn a technique or form then learn how to apply it right away. Same way you would do in boxing with focus gloves, sparring etc.

So say for boxing if I can jump in the ring against a similarly experienced boxer. My boxing probably works. It is at least functional.

Takes us about 3 months by the way.

So for krav you would..........?

 

[drop bear]

I like how he says don’t stay on the ground.

I didn't by the way. As he just stood up. For our drills the guy will try to drag me back down forcing me to knee ride of forearm grind up.

There is this whole dynamic of this halfway up fighting to get free that they are missing there.

 

[drop bear]

This guy is good:

My view by the way. And this is with technically competent krav.

90% of their energy is focused on 10% of the fight.

So let's say we look at gun disarming. How much time training it to how likely you will ever be able to make that work.

Which is also the street sport argument that sport systems don't spend any energy on that 10%