Why is Zen not emphasized in most dojos?

[Captain Harlock]

Arts taught today are taught to different people, by different people, for different reasons than in days gone by. In order for Zen to be taught, Zen must be present, and most, have not found it. Hard to find something when the search is but a part time activity.

Then again, there is a saying "The Tao that is seen is not really the Tao". Another saying is, "If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him" implying that truth won't just walk up to you.

Numerous martial cultures have philosophies seeking answers to life. Most are interesting when studied.

One must also understand the difference between a fighting art, a combat art, and a martial art. Most do not.

An master and his student were walking.
The student asked, "Master, where does this road lead us?"
The Master replied, "The air is sweet today, and the flowers beautiful."

 

[Bigshadow]

I think it is essential to practice Zen to be a martial artist.

Is this true? Or does it come naturally as a part of the martial arts training? In the art I train in, we don't train in Zen. However, after reading Letters from the Zen master to the sword master, I realized that many of the things the Zen master spoke of, I understood, because I could see it and feel it (not everything, but alot of it). This wasn't because I practiced Zen, I believe in my case it is a natural evolution of my martial arts training. This is my opinion based on my own training and experiences.

Of course I do believe 10 years from now, my perception of what I read will be far more indepth and could seem quite different at that time.

 

[Andrew Green]

An master and his student were walking.
The student asked, "Master, where does this road lead us?"
The Master replied, "The air is sweet today, and the flowers beautiful."

Zen masters... poster children for ritalin

 

[Captain Harlock]

Some say that of any mystical faith. Zen is not faith but understanding and thought, brought on by thoughtfulness, and non-thought. Understanding is only possible when the mind is clear. What arts truly today promote a clean mind and the action of no actionthought?

 

[Lisa]

MODERATOR NOTE:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Lisa Deneka
MT Assist. Admin.

 

[crushing]

OK, it seems that only gorillas post on this website. I read all your replies, and it seems that not one of you realize that single, unarmed combat, which is wrestling, is not even practiced anymore on the street. I doubt Karate, or Jiu-jitsu, or Kempo, or TKD, or JKD is very effective against a gun or knife. And don't tell me about disarming techniques, that is fantasy. Martial Artists are by nature weak people who speculate on what works in a real fight, but never actually do it. Believe me, Mr. 280 Black Crackhead doesn't care if you know all the hot new techniques coming from Brazil, or the ancient techniques of Okinawan Karate, or even if you are a judo champion. There are very few cases of anyone using martial arts to defend themselves, largely because martial arts are mythology. If you don't realize that, I feel sorry for you. You go back to your fantasy kata, and i'll go back to speaking truth and kindness. Without philosophy, martial arts is a strange form of gymnastics.

Bye.

Please don't waste any effort feeling sorry for me, I'm doing just fine. I don't know that I haven't used MA to defend myself, as part of my MA training is avoid bad people and places and carry myself in a manner that doesn't cry out that I want to be someone's victim.

Out of curiosity, why would you stop speaking truth and kindness?

Anyway, you went from telling us Zen is a requirement for MA, to redefining what Zen means, and when you didn't get the results you sought you totally threw Zen out the window and reduced it to the vague idea of philosophy in your insulting, if not racist, rant. Zen may be a philosophy, but philosophy doesn't have to be Zen.

Maybe you can share how your idea of Zen or philosophy in general gives you the advantage over Mr. 280 pound crackhead (independent of his color)?

 

[exile]

Please don't waste any effort feeling sorry for me, I'm doing just fine. I don't know that I haven't used MA to defend myself, as part of my MA training is avoid bad people and places and carry myself in a manner that doesn't cry out that I want to be someone's victim.

Out of curiosity, why would you stop speaking truth and kindness?

Anyway, you went from telling us Zen is a requirement for MA, to redefining what Zen means, and when you didn't get the results you sought you totally threw Zen out the window and reduced it to the vague idea of philosophy in your insulting, if not racist, rant. Zen may be a philosophy, but philosophy doesn't have to be Zen.

Maybe you can share how your idea of Zen or philosophy in general gives you the advantage over Mr. 280 pound crackhead (independent of his color)?

Rep for that post, my good man, as soon as you've cycled off my current rep-stack. Your words are wasted at this point (`Account closed', eh?) but that's irrelevant. There's always be a next time, unfortunately...

 

[Xue Sheng]

I will first start off with I have read none of the responses to this because I do not want to rant or get into it, I have been down this road way to many times before and I really do not want to go there again beyond this.

The question was

Why is Zen not emphasized in most dojos?

Because if you know anything about eastern culture it is intrinsic to the art itself so there is no need to emphasize something that is already there.

When you walk you use your muscles to move when you study a Japanese martial art there is Zen

 

[crushing]

Rep for that post, my good man, as soon as you've cycled off my current rep-stack. Your words are wasted at this point (`Account closed', eh?) but that's irrelevant. There's always be a next time, unfortunately...

Thank you. I didn't notice it was closed.

Also, regarding your pop quiz from an earlier post. I'd have to cheat to find the Korean terminology for 'inner spread block'. I assume it goes a little something like 'something something makki'.

After googling. . .Hecho makki? Isn't that Spanish for 'Made in Makki'?

 

[exile]

Thank you. I didn't notice it was closed.

Also, regarding your pop quiz from an earlier post. I'd have to cheat to find the Korean terminology for 'inner spread block'. I assume it goes a little something like 'something something makki'.

LOL...Yup!

After googling. . .Hecho makki? Isn't that Spanish for 'Made in Makki'?

Could be... or it could be something completely idiomatic. My sense is, there are as many different Korean terms for any given KMA technique as there are English descriptions of that tech, which kind of ruins the idea that if we all just used Korean to describe what we're doing, we'd be able to understand what each other were talking about....

 

[Shaderon]

OK, it seems that only gorillas post on this website.

OOh OOOh I always wanted to meet Gorillas! Hiya you lot!! :wavey: OOh that means me too... *grunt*

I doubt Karate, or Jiu-jitsu, or Kempo, or TKD, or JKD is very effective against a gun or knife. And don't tell me about disarming techniques, that is fantasy.

Please let him live near me and attack a certain person I know with a knife... I could do with a laugh. :boing1: Ooh please please!!!!

Martial Artists are by nature weak people who speculate on what works in a real fight, but never actually do it.

Hmmm, he's obviously never met a real martial artist, or he's done a few weeks and given up in frustration.

There are very few cases of anyone using martial arts to defend themselves, largely because martial arts are mythology.

:lfao: oK there's my laugh... happy now.

If you don't realize that, I feel sorry for you. You go back to your fantasy kata, and i'll go back to speaking truth and kindness. Without philosophy, martial arts is a strange form of gymnastics.

Bye.

No truth and kindness has been demonstrated here, why do we need to prove our abilities if he can't???


How ROOOOD!

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Not that Zen doesn't have practical application to the martial arts, the clarity and speed of perception and action it can provide can be beneficial. But IMO its up to the student to find that training, not expect a MA teacher to provide it.

 

[Shaderon]

Thank you. I didn't notice it was closed.

Also, regarding your pop quiz from an earlier post. I'd have to cheat to find the Korean terminology for 'inner spread block'. I assume it goes a little something like 'something something makki'.

After googling. . .Hecho makki? Isn't that Spanish for 'Made in Makki'?

Inner spread block... isn't Hecyo "wedging block"... and inner is An or do you mean "Inward"? (Anuro)
So inner spread block (if a wedging block) would be An Palmok Hecyo Magki
I can't find anything in my notes saying Spread block so I'll have to trust you guys on that one.

 

[exile]

Inner spread block... isn't Hecyo "wedging block"... and inner is An or do you mean "Inward"? (Anuro)
So inner spread block (if a wedging block) would be An Palmok Hecyo Magki
I can't find anything in my notes saying Spread block so I'll have to trust you guys on that one.

That works for me... the `inner' bit is actually inside-to-outside, with the forearms moving away from each other. It's sometimes used to describe a particular move in the 7th Palgwe.

 

[exile]

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OOh OOOh I always wanted to meet Gorillas! Hiya you lot!! :wavey: OOh that means me too... *grunt*



Please let him live near me and attack a certain person I know with a knife... I could do with a laugh. :boing1: Ooh please please!!!!

Hmmm, he's obviously never met a real martial artist, or he's done a few weeks and given up in frustration.

:lfao: oK there's my laugh... happy now.



No truth and kindness has been demonstrated here, why do we need to prove our abilities if he can't???


How ROOOOD!

Great post! Just have to wait till you cyle off my current list...

This guy's posts on this thread remind me of a T-shirt I once saw on campus. On the front it said, `Death to Extremists!', and on the back, `At any cost, Crush Fanaticism!!'.

 

[crushing]

That works for me... the `inner' bit is actually inside-to-outside, with the forearms moving away from each other. It's sometimes used to describe a particular move in the 7th Palgwe.

Are you talking about the double middle block near the begining or the 'spreading' of the high X-block when facing south again at the top of the bar?

My teachers aren't real sticklers for Korean terminology. It's something I'm starting to undertake more on my own.

 

[exile]

Are you talking about the double middle block near the begining or the 'spreading' of the high X-block when facing south again at the top of the bar?

The double middle block, with the forearms more or less vertical, the one right before the X-block.

My teachers aren't real sticklers for Korean terminology. It's something I'm starting to undertake more on my own.

I'm in the same boat. And most of the storage space my poor brain came equipped with is already taken...

 

[Bigshadow]

Not that Zen doesn't have practical application to the martial arts, the clarity and speed of perception and action it can provide can be beneficial. But IMO its up to the student to find that training, not expect a MA teacher to provide it.

Reminds me of a quote...

The only Zen you find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring up there. --Robert M. Pirsig

 

[Shaderon]

That's right, it's a inner wedging block then as we learn it.

Here's a handy site I sometimes use for revision... I know we've kinda hijacked the thread but i don't suppose Freestyler will complain!! heehee

Shall we open a thread in the TKD section?

 

[Lisa]

MODERATOR NOTE:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Lisa Deneka
MT Assist. Admin.

I am not sure if everyone saw this upthread so I am going to bring it to the attention of everyone again.

It is true that this member's account is closed so lets just move on and continue with polite and respectful conversation. Please feel free to start another thread so that this thread can continue being about why Zen is not emphasized in most dojos.

Lisa Deneka
MT Assist. Admin.