Why is weight so important?

[Racer22]

Why is weight the preferred measure for division rather than height? I mean logically speaking you'd think a taller person would have an advantage over a shorter person as they have more reach.

I could understand for BJJ why weight would be so important but why is it for things like boxing? If weight really is that important, could a featherweight ever beat a heavyweight for example? When you compare someone like floyd mayweather to anthony joshua or amir khan to mike tyson you can't help but think the they wouldn't stand a chance against their heavier opponents but why?

What makes weight so superior compared to height?

 

[kuniggety]

The heavier you are, the more potential you have for being stronger (and will naturally be stronger). You throw a feather weight into a ring with a heavy weight and the decision will be made before it begins. Given equal training/skill, the heavy weight will win every time. Sure, the feather weight will get in a few good licks but as soon as they get hit by the heavy weight it will be like they just got hit by a freight train. The same goes for grappling arts... Being taller or shorter has their advantages but the heavier person has all the advantage. If I can get my grips on you and pull you or push you wherever I want you to go then I will have all the advantage.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why is weight the preferred measure for division rather than height? I mean logically speaking you'd think a taller person would have an advantage over a shorter person as they have more reach.

I could understand for BJJ why weight would be so important but why is it for things like boxing? If weight really is that important, could a featherweight ever beat a heavyweight for example? When you compare someone like floyd mayweather to anthony joshua or amir khan to mike tyson you can't help but think the they wouldn't stand a chance against their heavier opponents but why?

What makes weight so superior compared to height?

Assuming we compare two people who are in good physical condition, if one is much heavier than the other, it will be for one of two reasons:

1) The heavier person is far more muscular.

2) The heavier person is significantly taller.

Either conveys an advantage, and weight controls for both. If you have two people in the same weight class who are very different heights, that usually means one is taller and the other is more muscular, which offset to some degree.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Assuming we compare two people who are in good physical condition, if one is much heavier than the other, it will be for one of two reasons:

1) The heavier person is far more muscular.

2) The heavier person is significantly taller.

Either conveys an advantage, and weight controls for both. If you have two people in the same weight class who are very different heights, that usually means one is taller and the other is more muscular, which offset to some degree.

I should add that when you look at groundwork and grappling, weight has an inherent advantage, entirely separate from strength, in that being heavier means you are harder to move and have a more stable base (assuming equal skills) to grapple from.

 

[Anuka]

A heavier person can generate more force. Force= mass x acceleration, so if two people can punch with equal speed, and good technique, the one with more mass should have a harder punch or kick.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Physics.

 

[Buka]

Great question, Racer. I think the answers are spot on. And keep in mind, divisions by weight came about by people organizing sport. From observations and experiences, it must have come in as an obvious conclusion.

Another thing to add (which I'm also sure they came up with) is "catching" as opposed to "pitching". If you are fifty pounds heavier than me, and every bit as talented - if you cover well and I bang away at your arms because I'm trying to get through, that's one thing. But if you are banging away at my arms - that's an entirely different ball game. My arms are well seasoned, but they are roughly the size of a sausage. If your arms are the size of a big, old side of beef, the damage done by me to you is nothing compared to the damage done to me by your big old arms banging away with your big old fist, regardless of what gloves we are wearing. The heavier the contact allowed, the more important, and necessary, weight divisions become.

As for grappling. A lot of my grappling partners were heavy men. We were of equal skill, came up together. It was fun....but it really, really sucked. Especially on hot nights, where I damn near drowned.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Brock Lesnar vs demetrius Johnson imagine that and you'll get your answer

 

[Racer22]

So taking what you've said into account, whenever a street fight occurs, the height of the opponent goes out the window, it's their build you should be concerned about?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So taking what you've said into account, whenever a street fight occurs, the height of the opponent goes out the window, it's their build you should be concerned about?

Re-read GPseymours post again: weight controls for both height and strength. Also a streetfight is incredibly different than an organized sport, primarily in that the people involved likely aren't conditioned to take a beating.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So taking what you've said into account, whenever a street fight occurs, the height of the opponent goes out the window, it's their build you should be concerned about?

Nobody said height doesn't matter. Look back at what I said earlier - if you are of similar builds, a taller person will be heavier than you. If you are the same weight and they're taller, then you are the heavier build. If we assume you're both in shape, then you're stronger.

Reach definitely matters. If I have to choose between an opponent who has longer reach, or one who is much stronger, I'll take the longer reach.

 

[Juany118]

To the OP as someone else said, Physics. Force = Mass * Acceleration. Thus with the proper technique, the person who can put the most mass (roughly body weight), with the most acceleration (a product of fast twitch muscle fibers and technique) will hit the hardest. Now of course there are other factors that contribute but they are, for the most part, tertiary factors. @gpseymour above pretty much nails it.

There is a rule of thumb I tend to go with... when skill is equal the bigger guy wins and this doesn't mean height. My ex-partner at work is shorter than me by almost 5 inches but he is the stereotypical "fire plug" of a guy who goes to the gym almost everyday throwing around a LOT of weights. If our skill is equal and using the same "rules" of conflict, he would win because the extra muscle mass (and it's about 50+ lbs worth last time we had a chat on the issue) means that he could block/deflect, hell maybe eat a couple of blows the closed inside my reach. Eventually he would wear me down. The only way I would have a prayer is if he played by "sporting" rules and I played by "combat" rules but that almost never happens. In the ring people play but sporting rules, on the street (if you want to survive) you play by combat rules. As such the same rule set comes into play and its about mass * acceleration.

 

[Langenschwert]

Bigger people are stronger as a general rule, and are harder to move and damage. The Codex Wallerstein (a 15th Century German fight book) states in its grappling section that "in friendly combat strength always has the advantage".

That's why people make weapons. To varying degrees, they mitigate the size and strength advantage of an opponent, making training more critical than mass. A small spearman is more than a match for a swordsman who might outweigh him by 30 lbs. due to the reach and speed of the spear. Put the two of them together in a boxing match and things will be totally different.

 

[Juany118]

Bigger people are stronger as a general rule, and are harder to move and damage. The Codex Wallerstein (a 15th Century German fight book) states in its grappling section that "in friendly combat strength always has the advantage".

That's why people make weapons. To varying degrees, they mitigate the size and strength advantage of an opponent, making training more critical than mass. A small spearman is more than a match for a swordsman who might outweigh him by 30 lbs. due to the reach and speed of the spear. Put the two of them together in a boxing match and things will be totally different.

Force multiplier for the win. You can even rationalize it based on size alone irl. "juany, did you use your baton/pipe/bat?"... "yes why."... "why, he wasn't armed. "I am 5'10 and weigh 165 lbs. He is about 6'4" and weighs 220 easy and I was alone."..."okay"...

This is assuming you didn't crush his skull of course and simply went for limbs, torso and such.

 

[Langenschwert]

Force multiplier for the win.

You could even put forth the argument that a really big person is their own force multiplier!

 

[Ironbear24]

Training matters of course but that is without saying. My cousin is heavier than me and taller but I can lift more than him, (strength) and I can beat him in a sparring match. (Technique).

If we were both equally trained though he would more than likely win.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

There are some who say weight makes no difference in martial arts that's bs to me. Of course it makes a difference but your not better or worse if you're strong or weak. Strong people don't need to rely as much on their technical skills because they can power through a move but smaller need to work their technique more and make adjustments because a technique won't work the same for 2 different people. That's not saying that smaller people can't use power and bigger people can't use techique but that's what difference weight makes

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There are some who say weight makes no difference in martial arts that's bs to me.

Who? I have never once heard a serious martial artist make that claim. I've heard people say that technique matters more than weight, or that lighter people have certain advantages to minimize their disadvantages(hear that one sometimes when talking to grappling friends), but I've never heard anyone deny that it has an effect.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

Who? I have never once heard a serious martial artist make that claim. I've heard people say that technique matters more than weight, or that lighter people have certain advantages to minimize their disadvantages(hear that one sometimes when talking to grappling friends), but I've never heard anyone deny that it has an effect.

I've heard plenty of jiu jitsu people say it and even saw the person who runs Gracie barra over where I am make that claim on live tv

 

[kuniggety]

I've heard plenty of jiu jitsu people say it and even saw the person who runs Gracie barra over where I am make that claim on live tv

The idea in jiu-jitsu is that with enough training and by using the right technique you can overcome strength differences. Strength is always a factor. I've rolled with higher belts who are 50 lbs lighter than me and could wrap me up and throw me around like a rag doll. And I have a fundamental jiu-jitsu understanding. Strength differences/weight is definitely something that I have to worry about. Some 250 lb man gets me in side control and I'm in trouble but I can literally just throw a 150 lb person off of me.