Why is their so much disrespect for Karate? And what can we do to stop it?

drop bear

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The decline of karate started before MMA became mainstream. Off the top of my head, Double Impact comes to mind as a candidate for the last karate-based box office hit. That's from 1991. MMA didn't enter the mainstream until around just before the end of the 90's.
Muay thai and Kickboxing didn't help.
 

Hanzou

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rather big news where e

I know what it means it's an amount between 00000000000000.1 and 9999999999999999999999999.9 infact any number at all less than 100%

as such meaningless with out context

but you know that, which is why you use it to describe thing you have absolutly no way of quantifing

so back to your claim, show what amount of the decline in king fu is directly applicable to these challenge fights

Did you end up going to those schools and teaching?

Yeah, it was from my old Shotokan teacher. I only did a few lessons though. Very interesting experience.
 

jobo

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Yeah, it was from my old Shotokan teacher. I only did a few lessons though. Very interesting experience.
I see you only have a down on karate etal for not including ground defence and not say boxing or mt, that would be similarly disadvantaged if they found them selves on the floor with someone sat on them

but then bjj, would be some what disadvantaged against a good striker, so its swings and round abouts
 

Hanzou

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I see you only have a down on karate etal for not including ground defence and not say boxing or mt, that would be similarly disadvantaged if they found them selves on the floor with someone sat on them

Because we're in the Karate/Japanese forums. If we were in general MA forum, I'd happily talk about MT and Boxing.
 

jobo

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Because we're in the Karate/Japanese forums. If we were in general MA forum, I'd happily talk about MT and Boxing.
judging by the usual conduct of the forum that isn't a bar to any conversation, but you do seem to be spending most of your time exalting the virtues of bjj which is neither Japanese or karate, so clearly you don't find the forum section heading all that important

but the comment was about your general conduct rather than these post in particular, karate and other stand up arts all have the same inherent weakness, just as all grappling arts have the opposite issue.

karate, at least some karate, does include stand up grappling and floor work, so its a much more complete art than some, certainly more complete than bjj. is it as proficient at floor work as bjj, possibly not, it is a better compromise than only being a one trick pony
 

Hanzou

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judging by the usual conduct of the forum that isn't a bar to any conversation, but you do seem to be spending most of your time exalting the virtues of bjj which is neither Japanese or karate, so clearly you don't find the forum section heading all that important

but the comment was about your general conduct rather than these post in particular, karate and other stand up arts all have the same inherent weakness, just as all grappling arts have the opposite issue.

karate, at least some karate, does include stand up grappling and floor work, so its a much more complete art than some, certainly more complete than bjj. is it as proficient at floor work as bjj, possibly not, it is a better compromise than only being a one trick pony

Karate's stand up grappling isn't sufficient against a competent grappler or even a weak grappler with superior size and strength. Further, in a striking exchange, you have a very high chance of ending up in a clinch, which gives the advantage to the grappler. Finally, submission grappling has standing submissions, and that includes Bjj.
 

jobo

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Karate's stand up grappling isn't sufficient against a competent grappler or even a weak grappler with superior size and strength. Further, in a striking exchange, you have a very high chance of ending up in a clinch, which gives the advantage to the grappler. Finally, submission grappling has standing submissions, and that includes Bjj.
your saying that like its a fact and not an opinion a problem you seem to have an ongoing issue with

other than opinions and a bemusing logic circle involving mma can you evidence that point

my experience, is poor grapplers who are bigger and stronger end up on the floor quite easily, but i stress this is my opinion,

do you have anything that isnt just your opinion to support you claim
 

Hanzou

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your saying that like its a fact and not an opinion a problem you seem to have an ongoing issue with

other than opinions and a bemusing logic circle involving mma can you evidence that point

my experience, is poor grapplers who are bigger and stronger end up on the floor quite easily, but i stress this is my opinion,

do you have anything that isnt just your opinion to support you claim

So you're saying that assailants bigger and stronger than you get thrown to the floor "easily" via your superior Karate grappling?
 

Hanzou

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that has thus far been my experience, yes

You need to sell your secrets to Judo then, because even Judo black belts have trouble throwing assailants bigger and stronger than them to the ground. They can certainly do it, but I would hesitate to say that they can do so "easily".
 

jobo

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You need to sell your secrets to Judo then, because even Judo black belts have trouble throwing assailants bigger and stronger than them to the ground. They can certainly do it, but I would hesitate to say that they can do so "easily".
its not a secrete mate, its just leverage , good balance and reactions, i have more problem with smaller guys as their centre of gravity is lower than mine
 

Hanzou

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its not a secrete mate, its just leverage , good balance and reactions, i have more problem with smaller guys as their centre of gravity is lower than mine

You're right, it's not a "secrete", it's pure fantasy. It's right up there with Jowga saying he can't be taken down because of a kung fu stance.
 

jobo

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You're right, it's not a "secrete", it's pure fantasy. It's right up there with Jowga saying he can't be taken down because of a kung fu stance.
well thats yet another opinion, your good at those,, i don't need to be stronger than the other guy as long as i dont get into a trial of strength with him, I just need to be strong enough using leverage to move his body passed its tipping point and down he goes, speed is more important than strength

i have no issue at all moving anyone even vaguely normal body weight, i weigh 200lb and i can move that about with great ease, 250 300 lbs and a bit of leverage and down they go, much more than that and i might have a problem just over coming their inertia, but then they are likely to expire of a heart attack anyway
 

Graywalker

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You need to sell your secrets to Judo then, because even Judo black belts have trouble throwing assailants bigger and stronger than them to the ground. They can certainly do it, but I would hesitate to say that they can do so "easily".
Lever, pulley, incline plane, wheel...these are basic tools to move larger objects with ease. Sure you will encounter resistance...but it can still be used with proficiency.

These same ideas can be applied to any number of throws...and if you always wind up in a clinch in a fight, you need to reevaluate your skills.

You are basically claiming to have knowledge of all karate systems and you simply do not.
 

Hanzou

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Lever, pulley, incline plane, wheel...these are basic tools to move larger objects with ease. Sure you will encounter resistance...but it can still be used with proficiency.

These same ideas can be applied to any number of throws...and if you always wind up in a clinch in a fight, you need to reevaluate your skills.

You are basically claiming to have knowledge of all karate systems and you simply do not.

I'm claiming that Judoka and wrestlers are the best in the game. If those groups have difficulty throwing larger and stronger opponents, then there's zero chance karate could teach someone to throw someone larger than them "easily".
 

drop bear

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well thats yet another opinion, your good at those,, i don't need to be stronger than the other guy as long as i dont get into a trial of strength with him, I just need to be strong enough using leverage to move his body passed its tipping point and down he goes, speed is more important than strength

i have no issue at all moving anyone even vaguely normal body weight, i weigh 200lb and i can move that about with great ease, 250 300 lbs and a bit of leverage and down they go, much more than that and i might have a problem just over coming their inertia, but then they are likely to expire of a heart attack anyway
Why aren't they using leverage to stop you?
 

Graywalker

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I'm claiming that Judoka and wrestlers are the best in the game. If those groups have difficulty throwing larger and stronger opponents, then there's zero chance karate could teach someone to throw someone larger than them "easily".
Boy you really wasted a lot of your years in a sport Karate, to hate it so much. You could really blame your instructor and yourself for being scammed. Not all of Karate.
 

Hanzou

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Boy you really wasted a lot of your years in a sport Karate, to hate it so much. You could really blame your instructor and yourself for being scammed. Not all of Karate.

So you're saying that Karate has better grappling than Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ?
 

Graywalker

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So you're saying that Karate has better grappling than Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ?
No, you should read that post again. In noway did I even touch base with that.

But is judo and wrestling superior to Karate when only striking can be used? Punches, kicks and elbows? No they are not.

So what's your point. When inside a specific ruleset, one art is superior to another?
 
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