Why does MMA count as an own martial art now ?

Tez3

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harm, maim and gore each other if will be

Only animals with horns can gore people.

I'd like to ask you this: Why is it that martial arts that evolved all over Asia and even Medieval Europe had religion and philosophy so closely integrated into it that it became indelible part of martial arts way. In Japan, it is Zen Buddism, in China it is Buddism and Taosim, etc. Some of the greatest martial artists of all times have written countless books on the philosophy.

That's fairly simple to answer, in Asia there is far less of a division between everyday life and religion, what they do everyday and in martial arts is part and parcel of a whole. In the West we put everything into compartments, this is work, this is sports, this is a hobby, this is religion, they don't have anything to do with each other whereas in the East these things are all tied into together so you find the same attention to religion in martial arts as you do in everyday life. In the West we don't have that.


To keep an open mind about learning, I'd like to ask you to tell me what I could glean from MMA's perspective to make me better understand the foundation it sits on.

Mixed Martial Arts take their perspective and their foundation from the TMA's they are made up of.
 

tigercrane

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Only animals with horns can gore people.
I can pick up a pointy object and gore someone with it, but I digress. ;)

Your quote: "Mixed Martial Arts take their perspective and their foundation from the TMA's they are made up of."

Thank you for taking the time to reply but it does not really answer the question posed by Johnny about why some people call it an Art on its own.

In your opinion, what defines any given art an art? Is it a set of principles, techniques, concepts, philosophy, a combination thereof or none of it?

Anyways, it was a good discussion and I enjoyed the input from you and others, peace!
 

Tez3

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I can pick up a pointy object and gore someone with it, but I digress. ;)

Your quote: "Mixed Martial Arts take their perspective and their foundation from the TMA's they are made up of."

Thank you for taking the time to reply but it does not really answer the question posed by Johnny about why some people call it an Art on its own.

In your opinion, what defines any given art an art? Is it a set of principles, techniques, concepts, philosophy, a combination thereof or none of it?

Anyways, it was a good discussion and I enjoyed the input from you and others, peace!

I don't call MMA 'an art', it's what it says it is... mixed martial arts. Why do some people call it an art? I don't know you'd have to ask them but have to say most people I know just call it MMA and get on with training. The question of whether it's an art or not doesn't come up. I will also say that 'Johnny' hates MMA and disparages it, I believe the OP is just a diatribe against something he doesn't like therefore doesn't reflect the truth about MMA just his opinion.

The reason I picked up your word 'gore ( and I agree you can gore someone with a pointy object but we don't use weapons in MMA) is because it give entirely the wrong impression of what MMAers do. I have seen thousands of live fights and a great many televised/videoed ones, the amount of injuries or damage to fighters in all those fights is tiny, far less than in soccer or rugby, certainly far less than in horse racing where deaths of jockeys are surprisingly high. The worse injury I have seen live is a broken leg, that happened when two fighters kicked at the same time clashing legs, one broke, that's something that wouldn't be unique to MMA but could happen in any kicking style. The injuries I've seen have been consistent with most martial arts, split lips, a broken nose, strains and sprains. After fights it's common for opponents to get together to chat about their fight, exchange techniques and have a beer together, the level of sportsmanship is high. The intent to wound and maim isn't in fighters minds, it's tactics, techniques and trying to win against an opponent, yes of course they are fighting but then so do boxers and that's an accepted sport.
 

Danny T

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Where did the martial systems come from and why? What was the purpose for codifying the martial systems and its participants in religion, moral values, and lifestyles?
All combat has rules of engagement and manners.
Do you want your martial participants to conduct themselves when at peace the same as when in combat?
Today some martial arts training include enlightenment, humility, and some even espouse some religion. But not all. I believe within the training if it is emphasized humility and respect can develop. If someone is really interested in what a school or gym has to offer in the way of training they will do what is required of them to train. If acting humbly is required they will act humble but are they? If being respectful is required they will act respectfully but are they actually Respectful?
Some are, some aren't.
People will do what is required of them to get what they want but that doesn't mean they have changed.
Most participants in the martial arts are good humble and respectful persons to begin with. For them training simply reinforces at a higher level and expounds what they already are.
The MMA Show is different from MMA Training. One is for selling tickets for entertainment. It is loud, brash, and in your face selling selling selling! It is also a very psychological game for selling and to mentally beat the opponent. It is using the 'Art of War'; which by the way is a very highly touted book within the martial arts.
Within the MMA communities (from the U.S, Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Europe, the Middle East, and Japan) most all I have had experience with have been very respectful, hard working, and open to what will help them be better in their competitions. Not all have been such but most are. Now if you have experienced what happens when a fighter is in fight mode especially toward the end of their fight camp where they are tired, sore and hurting, hungry and annoyed from their weight cutting think about how any of us feel when we are mentally and physically exhausted from work and then training and we are hungry we aren't real pleasant. We aren't real humble and respectful. I'm not anyway, I just want to eat, shower, and sleep. MMA is an awesome sport and if you were truly involved in it you would also see a completely different aspect than what is seen in the media.
 

TSDTexan

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Yeah ... with all due respect to Helio, his understanding of Japanese judo/jujutsu history was shaky at best, totally wrong at worst. In addition, he was a consummate spin artist who changed his accounts of BJJ history more than once depending on what suited him at the moment.

As far as the striking goes, that was something the Gracies picked up from years of brawling rather than from Maeda. With just a few exceptions, the striking in BJJ is not tremendously systemized and is more focused on setting up grappling moves than on doing major damage.

All valid points.
Tony,
For the purpose of being on the same page...
Please if you would, give me a names of a few striking arts that are focused on doing major damage, other than western boxing.
 

drop bear

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I am bit late to this thread, but I'd have to side with Johnny in my detesting of MMA.
All I see in MMA is bunch of techniques and brute force applications and not much else. Efficient? Sure it is, but this is not the point.

So what sets TMA apart from MMA?

IMO, MMA is not an art because there is so much more to any traditional martial art than just someone's ability to maim and gore one's opponent. Martial art teaches such concepts as humility, enlightenment and philosophy, things that transcend physical combat.

MMA is anything but any of that.

If you haven't learned humility you will not be able to recover from loss.

Or in the case of mma be on your back getting punched in the face is one of the ultimate lessons in humility.
 

drop bear

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In all my years I see little humility and enlightenment in any of it. Quite sad really. In moving to Japan many years ago I had expected to find a more philosophical approach. In Japan we call it Budo Seishin. With what I have experienced over the years it's quite clear to me that if you want to incorporate these attributes along with honesty obligation to ones teacher you have to put it in there yourself. Fighters are born to it. One simply channels that ability. You are not going to make fighter out of a nerd either. So we all practice for varying reasons. With MMA it all boils down to money anyway. They get paid for doing this stuff and have an audience.


You should listen in to the dragon ball z discussions we have at our gym and then talk about nerds and fighters.

Mark hunt posted on Facebook that he is looking out for the next war hammer movie.

We take people off the street and put them in the ring in 12 weeks. Just normal people. Not fighters.
 

drop bear

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I can pick up a pointy object and gore someone with it, but I digress. ;)

Your quote: "Mixed Martial Arts take their perspective and their foundation from the TMA's they are made up of."

Thank you for taking the time to reply but it does not really answer the question posed by Johnny about why some people call it an Art on its own.

In your opinion, what defines any given art an art? Is it a set of principles, techniques, concepts, philosophy, a combination thereof or none of it?

Anyways, it was a good discussion and I enjoyed the input from you and others, peace!

Because it is. If I can show you a thing I don't have to logically validate its existence.

It is like asking why is a table? I mean it is made of wood so therefore it is a tree.
 

drop bear

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OK post number whatever in a row.

Let's look at the metaphysical junk that is involved in mma. And the first place I go is returning vets using mma to help combat PTSD.

Fightland Specials MMA After War Video Blog FIGHTLAND

Now you want spiritual. Here is your spiritual. I mean there is a link between mma and a larger collection of benefits that just goring people.

Personally I think hard work done diligently creates a stronger character than navel contemplation.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Please if you would, give me a names of a few striking arts that are focused on doing major damage, other than western boxing.
Karate
Muay Thai
TKD
Krav Maga
Kempo
Wing Chun
etc

When I say "focused on doing major damage" I just mean training to end the fight using strikes - whether by knocking the opponent out, breaking bones, or just causing enough pain to make the opponent quit. I'm not sure I can think of a striking-focused art that doesn't have that objective.

In contrast, strikes in BJJ are usually intended to force a reaction from the opponent that can be used to control distance, set up a takedown, improve position, or sink in a submission.
 

TSDTexan

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Karate
Muay Thai
TKD
Krav Maga
Kempo
Wing Chun
etc

When I say "focused on doing major damage" I just mean training to end the fight using strikes - whether by knocking the opponent out, breaking bones, or just causing enough pain to make the opponent quit. I'm not sure I can think of a striking-focused art that doesn't have that objective.

In contrast, strikes in BJJ are usually intended to force a reaction from the opponent that can be used to control distance, set up a takedown, improve position, or sink in a submission.

BJJ isn't known for advocating striking, and has mild aversion to remaining at striking range, against someone who is a striking artist.

But like the mythical sirens of the sea, their goal is to drown sailors, not cross sabers with them.

This is why I contend that a well rounded martial artist should be cross trained, starting with striking ranges, and develope to the degree where the are quite competent. But not stop there.
Imho
By the time a guy is first Dan in a striking art, he should already be a blue belt in JJ, and hungry to hit brown in JJ.

Cross training closes gaps in a martial artist's skill set.

Most fighters dont have a plan or skill set outside of kicking range either.

I teach my students to have one.
 

TSDTexan

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Is Chun Kuk Do a martial art?
Arguably, yes.
It started with TSD as a base but has Direct injections of Karate and BJJ DNA.

But it is a full on systematic approach.
And still leaves a striker mindset more than a grappler's mind set. Yet it is a formal MMA.
 

jezr74

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A triathlon is a multiple-stage competition involving the completion of three continuous and sequential endurance disciplines. While many variations of the sport exist, triathlon, in its most popular form, involves swimming, cycling, and running in immediate succession over various distances.

Do you train for a triathlon, or do you train for swimming, cycling and running?

This is how I see MMA.
 

TSDTexan

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Or you can learn a well rounded martial art.

Tell me, which single art has formalized training curriculum and methods for fighting at the following ranges
1. Rifle, pistol, bow, slingshot etc. Ranges
2. Handheld long weapons
3. Kicking and short weapons
4. Punching
5. Trapping/throwing/tripping/Kido wrist locking and breaking
6. clinching/elbows/knees/
7. Headblows/shoulder striking.
8. Ground fighting

As far as I am aware... There is no single system teaching a full range spectrum, and fully handles transitions between ranges.
 
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RTKDCMB

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can show you plenty of videos where an opponent lays on the ground and still get's his teeth beaten out his face. And sorry, but this is not how I was raised, from childhood on, I was tought, NEVER hit somebody who is already on the ground! This is a rule I would follow in a street fight and a rule I will for sure also follow in a competition.
No point putting an attacker on the ground if they are just going to get straight up and attack you again.
 

RTKDCMB

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Tell me, which single art has formalized training curriculum and methods for fighting at the following ranges
1. Rifle, pistol, bow, slingshot etc. Ranges
2. Handheld long weapons
3. Kicking and short weapons
4. Punching
5. Trapping/throwing/tripping/Kido wrist locking and breaking
6. clinching/elbows/knees/
7. Headblows/shoulder striking.
8. Ground fighting

As far as I am aware... There is no single system teaching a full range spectrum, and fully handles transitions between ranges.
Except for the weapons, mine.
 
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