I am not an authority on Wing Chun, I only learned Siu lum tao. BUt in Chinese martial arts things are not written in stone and you get variations from generation to generation and from student to student and Ip Man did not teach everyone the same way so there can be many reasons as to why they do things different. As one of my shifus (from a different style said - Chinese, trained in China) no two people are the same so there are variations.
As far a wing chun goes, I think Ip Ching was taller than Ip Chun is. I don't know this for sure, never having meant Ip Chun. But Ip Ching was taller than I expected him to be.
Yeah ...within branches of the Yip Man lineage the degree of variation increases as you progress deeper into the systems.I'll also comment that there are differences with all of the Wing Chun forms and lineages, but those differences seem larger with Chum Kiu for some reason that I don't have a theory about.
Dunno. Some of the weapons sets that are out there are totally different. Even such basic things as the grip on the long pole, and especially, the later parts of the BCD form. Or anything by William Cheung.Interestingly enough, I feel like the biggest differences are in Chim Kiu. I don't know why.
Yeah, there are lineages that are just ... different ... for sure.Dunno. Some of the weapons sets that are out there are totally different. Even such basic things as the grip on the long pole, and especially, the later parts of the BCD form. Or anything by William Cheung.
On the whole, I'm very satisfied by the concepts I learned in my base lineage, although I'm also very partial to the WSL stuff, and from what I've read, WSL himself as a sifu. I'm sure there is more good stuff and good people out there than I will ever know.
Yeah. From the little I've seen, I've a lot of respect for the Duncan Leung Lineage too.Yeah, there are lineages that are just ... different ... for sure.
And you're right about the Baat Cham Do. The staff forms I've seen all have the same basic stuff, but the sequence is different. I see different expressions in everything, but if I'm being honest, I express things differently depending on what I'm working on, so if you filmed me on any particular day, I'd hate to defend what you see as "my lineage does things this way".
There are lineages, including WSL, who I've not had an opportunity to train with, but would love to spend some time with. I had a year and change of Moy Yat before settling into Duncan Leung. I've trained and touched hands with a few other lineages. The differences are always interesting and it's good to be open to them.
Both my teacher and my teacher's teacher (each is now retired) outweighed me by 70+ pounds. They have both incorporated their greater mass into their Art in a way most favorable to them. No fault, no blame.Both Ip Chun and Ip Ching were there when their father filmed himself doing the Chum Kiu form. If this was to preserve the art, why do Ip Man's sons do the form differently? Check the video to see what I mean:
This is the best, if somewhat less than flattering explanation of why we see such variation in the branches of the Yip Man lineage today. And, it jibes with explanations I got privately from my old sifu and other sources.There are a few reasons for Yip Man differences especially in the more advanced forms. I would guess less than 20 and maybe less than 10 learned everything directly from Yip Man. Yip Mans school wasn't set up the way we think of schools today. YIp had to eat and his only marketable skill was Wing Chun so as students got more advanced the name of the game was who can pay. Using knives as an example.
Tradition said that there is only 1 knife man. That was Yip Bo Ching he was taught all 12 sections and derivatives. He was also wealthy and compensated Yip well. Yip taught Lok Yui the pole and Leung Sheung part of the knives. They were then supposed to teach each other the weapon they learned. Many could only afford one section of the knife form at a time. Yip would then just teach another section whenever the person had saved up enough for more. hence many differences in the form since there was no order to the teaching. Chu Shong Tin lived with Yip man the longest but was not wealthy. Even though he was a very early student he did not learn the knives until 1965 or so. Yip taught him his form but again it was just what sections Yip felt like doing at the time.. WSL learned his form in the late 50's and then after Yip Bo Ching died in 1969 Yip taught WSL some more or so the story goes. Several people actually learned things from WSL not Yip Man even though they were Yip Man students. Wang Kui was instrumental in school growth because he wrote about and arranged many of WSL and Willam Cheungs fights so he got a form. Forms were just whatever Yip Man felt life or had the time to teach. Moy Yat was taught with chop sticks over dim sum. Because of his job he was able to keep Yip company when others were not available so the form was Yips thank you.
Yip Man also was not always patient. If you had trouble getting or performing a movement or a section of a form Yip would change it for you. This also lead to some variations. When I started in 1983 4 or 5 WC speople from Hong Kong came by our school to vist and started telling stories. Everyone started laughing so my sifu told us what was said. A Yip Man student had trouble doing a particular motion so Yip changed it for him. Of couse when he taught he taught his students the modification so now they always got hit during chi sau by people that were aware of this when ever they did this motion and they didn't understand why. It was a big laugh..
Often seniors taught the students and maybe Yip Man would correct a mistake and maybe he wouldn't.
Jiu Wan's school was the only school Yip Man publicly endorsed. Yip would often hang out at Jui Wan's school while people were being taught at his school.
So you can see there are many reasons for variations.