Whose opinions count?

[Miles]

In another thread, a post read:

<<I simply refuse to recognize the good or bad opinions of me by gup or kyu students in a forum. Doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings. I also wouldn't (believe it or not) purposely try to offend them. Some yellow belt thinks I'm an A-hole on the forum and I should change my behavior? Don't really care. Now, if an advanced practictioner has a problem, we can discuss it and come to an amicable conclusion.>>

As a newcomer to this Forum, I thought this was an interesting post deserving of more exploration. I have purposely not attributed it to the author.

Whose opinions count in a relative anonymous format such as MT? I agree with the author that all persons are to be respected but some people have opinions that carry more or less weight. Do you gauge credibility by alleged rank? By prior posts?

Miles

 

[TigerWoman]

IMO, everybody has a right to post and express his opinion on this forum. Everybody should have respect for each other on this forum and in life outside this forum. After reading what a person has to say, opinions can be made to the validity of what a poster has to say then and it will aid in the credibility in the future.

Stated rank in this forum, I believe, has less in what to do with it. I have come to respect a good number of people from what they have said and they could have been a white belt. A black belt in life though. Alot of the time when a master or senior rank expresses their opinion, however, and I go WOW, it is no surprise that whoever said it is worthy of his rank. So I have come to really "see" who is actually a master in more than technique.

I am also dismayed at the lack of humility, anger, discourtesy, and lack of self-control by supposed senior rank or senior in their discipline. In our school, we have keys to success (in life as well as TKD) respect, repetition, patience, discipline and humility. Well known and supposedly followed are the Tenets of Taekwondo: courtesy, integrity, self-control, indomitable spirit, perseverance. The last two, I don't believe are to bludgeon a viewpoint home with character attacks for not agreeing with you. I think if you disagree, you state your point, you argue courteously without attack and after that-- rest on it. After all, it is only your humble opinion. And this is mine. TW

 

[terryl965]

Everyones opion count it is weather you ascept those opion or not. In my world I'm open to all opion for I feel I'm no better than anybody else. My rank only matters to me for I'm my worst critic.42 years in the MA and I have found knowledge from the youngest and beginners in a class. when ones refuse to accept another ones opion they refuse to learn, I learn everyday. GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[MichiganTKD]

In matters outside of Tae Kwon Do (legal, medical, educational etc.), there is no reason why a gup or kyu student cannot contribute in a meaningful way, particularly if they have expertise in a certain area. However, in matters of tae kwon Do (form application, kicking, free fighting, self defense etc.) I just don't believe a junior student's opinion counts as much as a senior student. Nothing against them, they just don't have the experience. The same as a 14 year old's opinion doesn't count as much as a 25 year old's. It is a matter of age and experience. Do they count as human beings with feelings to be taken into consideration? Absolutely. Should their opinion count as much as a Dan holder or master Instructor? No. I realize this is a public form. But I don't value a junior student's opinion of various aspects of Tae kwon Do the same way I would a senior student's, unless it was a matter outside tae kwon Do.

 

[terryl965]

In matters outside of Tae Kwon Do (legal, medical, educational etc.), there is no reason why a gup or kyu student cannot contribute in a meaningful way, particularly if they have expertise in a certain area. However, in matters of tae kwon Do (form application, kicking, free fighting, self defense etc.) I just don't believe a junior student's opinion counts as much as a senior student. Nothing against them, they just don't have the experience. The same as a 14 year old's opinion doesn't count as much as a 25 year old's. It is a matter of age and experience. Do they count as human beings with feelings to be taken into consideration? Absolutely. Should their opinion count as much as a Dan holder or master Instructor? No. I realize this is a public form. But I don't value a junior student's opinion of various aspects of Tae kwon Do the same way I would a senior student's, unless it was a matter outside tae kwon Do.

Michagan TKD you are absolutely right. I relized they where talking about you in particular and you've have always handle yourself with dignity in my opion. Hvae a wonderful holiday

 

[TigerWoman]

What was that saying that Theodore Roosevelt said, speak softly and carry a big stick.

My interpretation: humble, soft-spoken people, don't worry about pride. They have power, control over themselves and therefore carry quiet strength. We, all as martial artists, carry that big stick, our learned ability. The big stick is not rank. In the end the rank really means nothing. I would not really care if someone tossed in that 2nd dan belt into my casket.

But as martial artists with this ability, teaching others, we should be able to control ourselves. When we can't convince others of our argument that we are right and they are not, so what? Are we always right? By questioning my instructor, I think, honestly, that I have taught him a few things. And he has taught me alot too.

I have to respect those that have tons of years in martial arts who have devoted themselves, have achieved recognition from peers but have no certificate, fancy belt or lineage. I respect a master who is humble, yet has power, ability, and all traits a master should have to be able to teach his/her art.

Who knows who is who on this board. Alot of college professors have alot more years in but might be white belts. I know some who may not yet be black belts or even have rankings in their art but are doctors and physiologists. Some know exactly how a kick should be performed physically. Sure a high rank should get respect for all the time and effort to get there. Just like anybody who has passed a course, or had a business a long time or is a teacher. But even that, I have found out is nebulous. Who knows what went into that test, if they are terrible at business, or a poor teacher with no black belts sticking around. Or if the person on the forum is who he says he/she is. We, I believe, are pretty much equals first and should give each other common respect and courtesy. High respect is earned by what we say and do, not by rank. TW

 

[Zepp]

I have to respect those that have tons of years in martial arts who have devoted themselves, have achieved recognition from peers but have no certificate, fancy belt or lineage. I respect a master who is humble, yet has power, ability, and all traits a master should have to be able to teach his/her art.

Who knows who is who on this board. Alot of college professors have alot more years in but might be white belts. I know some who may not yet be black belts or even have rankings in their art but are doctors and physiologists. Some know exactly how a kick should be performed physically. Sure a high rank should get respect for all the time and effort to get there. Just like anybody who has passed a course, or had a business a long time or is a teacher. But even that, I have found out is nebulous. Who knows what went into that test, if they are terrible at business, or a poor teacher with no black belts sticking around. Or if the person on the forum is who he says he/she is. We, I believe, are pretty much equals first and should give each other common respect and courtesy. High respect is earned by what we say and do, not by rank. TW

Very true. Also, you have to keep in mind that because many of us train in different organizations, the ranks we see are not necessarily equal. Especially for those who may have many years training in similar skills in the martial arts, but not all in the same art. The number of years someone has been training for, and the number of years someone has been teaching for says far more about your qualifications here than rank.

Besides that, we all have eyes, ears, and a mind of our own (presumably anyways). It's one thing to weight someone's opinion according to their rank or experience, but to automatically assume that someone of lower rank can't possibly disagree with you and be worth listening to is simple-minded arrogance.

I simply refuse to recognize the good or bad opinions of me by gup or kyu students in a forum. Doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings.

That statement seems hypocritical to me. If you respect someone as a human being, and they think you're acting like a giant phallus, then why should their rank matter? If the gup ranks think you're being a jackass, then chances are that the black belts do too.

 

[Marginal]

Everyone has an opinion. Everyone's opinion isn't equally informed however. For example, if someone is a medical doctor, and you've taken high school biology, are your medical opinions supposed to be taken with equal weight? Should they be given equal consideration simply by virtue that they're presented in an anomyous format?

 

[celtic bhoy]

Nothing wrong with opinions.

They only become a problem when the self righteous amongst us mock other people's whilst forcing their own.

Opinions can be learned from as they are usually given through experience.

 

[MichiganTKD]

There is also a difference between a Master Instructor whose posting rank (#of posts) happens to be yellow belt but whose stated rank is, say, 4th Dan, and a MT member whose stated rank is yellow belt. Whose opinion should I take more seriously? Doesn't mean the yellow belt can't be more knowledgeable about certain aspects of life. They just don't know Tae kwon Do enough to really be taken seriously. I wouldn't expect the students in the aikido forum to take me that seriously as an 8th kyu.

 

[Adept]

A persons opinions should be judged on the merit of what they have to say, regardless of their rank. A Yellow belt can have a good idea or a valid opinion regardless of their experience in the art. We should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[MichiganTKD]

There is a difference between a yellow belt commenting on the difficulty of a particular form or technique or asking for help (which is the Instructor's job anyway), and voicing their opinion of a technique or form's interpretation or application. A color belt's job, as my Instructor used to say, is to keep training and don't worry about interpretation. The Instructor's job is to teach technique effectively, which often means interpreting technique or form to understand what it is doing. Color belts need not worry about that. They have enough to worry about. That's why I tend to brush off color belts' opinions about technique and form interpretation. It's nothing personal. It's just lack of experience. At work, if I presented my bosses with surefire plans to make things better, they would probably look at me funny.

 

[Adept]

At work, if I presented my bosses with surefire plans to make things better, they would probably look at me funny.

Possibly, but if your plan had genuine merit then it would be their loss.

I agree, often a coloured belt simply doesnt understand enough when they voice an opinion. But I dont think that means we should disregard everything they say out of hand. I believe we should listen to them, and decide for ourselves if their point has substance. Listen to the point, not the person.

 

[TigerWoman]

And by presenting bosses with new thinking you may very well get promoted or get a raise. Or at the very least make the company you work for more efficient, profitable or a better place to work. I don't think I ever was cautious to not present an idea to an employer. Most of the time, a boss would tell me why something wouldn't work and be courteous in the explanation. And sometimes they were good ideas.

Actually right now, I hesitate to pursue telling my master about putting together a judging criteria sheet for tournaments because of our past. Actually tried to tell him about it once; he didn't even look at the sheet which took me a few days to figure out. I have had many ideas and not much action through the years. Or three years later, he says its his idea. oh well. But I was encouraged that another master in another style liked my idea and may implement it with his changes. This is an example of my master's loss for being close-minded. TW

 

[Athena]

In matters outside of Tae Kwon Do (legal, medical, educational etc.), there is no reason why a gup or kyu student cannot contribute in a meaningful way, particularly if they have expertise in a certain area. However, in matters of tae kwon Do (form application, kicking, free fighting, self defense etc.) I just don't believe a junior student's opinion counts as much as a senior student. Nothing against them, they just don't have the experience. The same as a 14 year old's opinion doesn't count as much as a 25 year old's. It is a matter of age and experience. Do they count as human beings with feelings to be taken into consideration? Absolutely. Should their opinion count as much as a Dan holder or master Instructor? No. I realize this is a public form. But I don't value a junior student's opinion of various aspects of Tae kwon Do the same way I would a senior student's, unless it was a matter outside tae kwon Do.

agreed. i'm a teenage green belt, and there are a lot of topics in TKD that i have absolutely no authority on. there are, however, certain things that i feel like i've seen enough of to discuss. and of course, there are immature adults as well as mature kids.

i don't really think it's fair, though, to say that color belts shouldn't worry about technique interpretation. obviously i'm not going to debate you on a particular interpretation, but i think it's perfectly legitimate to want to understand it in addition to doing it. i have a dance background and many of the forms really aren't very difficult for me. since i'm not having trouble with the movements or the combinations yet, i think it's fair to focus on the application as well. i honestly don't see how thinking about what you're doing is a negative thing.

 

[Raewyn]

Sometimes people looking from the outside in can see better than the people looking from the inside out!!