Who joins the US Military?

[Tgace]

Put aside all the "poor and uneducated" memes:

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...-demographics-of-enlisted-troops-and-officers

Based on an understanding of the limitations of any objective definition of quality, this report compares military volunteers to the civilian population on four demographic characteristics: household income, education level, racial and ethnic background, and regional origin. This report finds that:

1. U.S. military service disproportionately attracts enlisted personnel and officerswho do not come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Previous Heritage Foundation research demonstrated that the quality of enlisted troops has increased since the start of the Iraq war. This report demonstrates that the same is true of the officer corps.
2. Members of the all-volunteer military are significantly more likely to come from high-income neighborhoods than from low-income neighborhoods. Only 11 percent of enlisted recruits in 2007 came from the poorest one-fifth (quintile) of neighborhoods, while 25 percent came from the wealthiest quintile. These trends are even more pronounced in the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program, in which 40 percent of enrollees come from the wealthiest neighborhoods-a number that has increased substantially over the past four years.
3. American soldiers are more educated than their peers. A little more than 1 percent of enlisted personnel lack a high school degree, compared to 21 percent of men 18-24 years old, and 95 percent of officer accessions have at least a bachelor's degree.
4. Contrary to conventional wisdom, minorities are not overrepresented in military service. Enlisted troops are somewhat more likely to be white or black than their non-military peers. Whites are proportionately represented in the officer corps, and blacks are overrepresented, but their rate of overrepresentation has declined each year from 2004 to 2007. New recruits are also disproportionately likely to come from the South, which is in line with the history of Southern military tradition.

The facts do not support the belief that many American soldiers volunteer because society offers them few other opportunities. The average enlisted person or officer could have had lucrative career opportunities in the private sector. Those who argue that American soldiers risk their lives because they have no other opportunities belittle the personal sacrifices of those who serve out of love for their country.

 

[Sukerkin]

It is a surprise to an extent but it ties in with the idea that those with some 'investment' in their society are more likely to be the ones to volunteer to defend it :nods:.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I almost joined the army on a number of occasions. I wanted to be part of something bigger and do something that I found meaningful, but I would have missed my family to the extent that it would have ruined the entire experience for me. I stayed out and pursued other options. I think part of me will always wonder what it would have been like if I did join.

 

[Big Don]

American soldiers are more educated than their peers. A little more than 1 percent of enlisted personnel lack a high school degree, compared to 21 percent of men 18-24 years old,

That number will eventually go to zero as the US military does not accept anyone with a GED anymore.
I joined because I wanted to serve my country.

 

[REY MISTERIO]

interesting

 

[sfs982000]

I initially joined for the opportunity to provide a better future for myself, I came from a pretty depressed area (former steel mill town) so the jobs just weren't there. Now after I joined the pride in service, brotherhood, comradere I learned along the way. I retired after 21 years of service and looking back I would do it again in heartbeat, best decision I ever made.

 

[Xue Sheng]

When my father had a high school diploma and when he joined the Navy he left college without finishing his degree. However he did eventually get his degree while in the Navy. But all this was many years ago.

 

[shihansmurf]

This varies based on current Recruiting needs. I am (thankfully I would point out) back in the operational Army, but I just completed my three year stint of being "voluntold" to recruit. While the above list is flattering, it paints a rather broad picture.

Specifically on the GED front, depending on our current needs the Army will accept a GED holder that scores above 50 on the ASVAB and has no criminal convictions above traffic violation(or rough equivalent). In any event, a GED holder that also had 15 college credit hours is considered the same as a high school graduate and they are also qualified to join.

I bring it up because this was a source of constant frustration for me as a Recruiter. I can't begin to tell you the number of times I had high school seniors and grad fail the ASVAB or barely scrape a passing score and at the same time have an applicant with a GED pass in the 80 to 90th percentile but I couldn't put them in. I understand the reasoning that the GED holders are historically less likely to finish their first term of service but the consistancy with which I witnessed this was disquieting.

In any event, thank you for your service.

Mark

 

[crushing]

The facts do not support the belief that many American soldiers volunteer because society offers them few other opportunities. The average enlisted person or officer could have had lucrative career opportunities in the private sector. Those who argue that American soldiers risk their lives because they have no other opportunities belittle the personal sacrifices of those who serve out of love for their country.

I wonder if this has changed much as we approach this 2008 Heritage Foundation article's fifth anniversary next month? Has anyone ever really argued that all American soldiers risk their lives because they have no other opportunities?

 

[Makalakumu]

On the surface it's a really good opportunity. You don't get paid much, but the bonuses and perks can be substantial. If you retire after 20years of service, you have the means to pursue something else. And the retirement package can be substantial. Also, veterans have first dibs at most well paying government jobs. And, if you're an officer, you are going to do really well. Many of the million dollar homes on Oahu are owned by retired officers. They usually have several houses on the mainland as well.

So, it doesn't surprise me that the poor and uneducated are under represented in the military. Service in the military has become even more attractive because so many well paying private sector jobs have dried up. On the whole, I think the overall state of the economy drives this. As more private sector jobs are outsourced, we'll see even more competition from middle and upper middle income families.

 

[Instructor]

I joined to do meaningful work for our country. It was one of the best decisions I've made (both times). The Coast Guard is my third military branch and I love it!

 

[Makalakumu]

I joined to do meaningful work for our country. It was one of the best decisions I've made (both times). The Coast Guard is my third military branch and I love it!

The Coast Guard looks like a lot of fun and I'm sure it's very fulfilling. It's also a branch that legitimately protects our country and is constantly risking their necks to save people's lives. I'm glad you find it fulfilling.

 

[Instructor]

They have taken very good care of us over the years. No complaints.

Oh and for the record I had a high school diploma when I joined the service and obtained an associates degree in business while I have been serving. I am just a handful of classes away from my Bachelors in Computer Science. Financed in large part by the American taxpayer via the military.

At the time of my joining the service my folks could afford to send me to college no problem but I didn't want to lean on them. I felt then that a person should try to make their own way.

 

[sfs982000]

They have taken very good care of us over the years. No complaints.

Oh and for the record I had a high school diploma when I joined the service and obtained an associates degree in business while I have been serving. I am just a handful of classes away from my Bachelors in Computer Science. Financed in large part by the American taxpayer via the military.

At the time of my joining the service my folks could afford to send me to college no problem but I didn't want to lean on them. I felt then that a person should try to make their own way.

Well put, I was in the same boat somewhat. I had my diploma when I enlisted, but after I enlisted I obtained 3 associates degrees and started working on a bachelor's degree, 2 of those degrees I paid for out of pocket without using my G.I. Bill via the Education Center on base. My family couldn't send me to school and even if they could I don't think I would've leaned on them to pay for my education. It was quite a sense of accomplishment doing it on my own.

 

[billc]

It's also a branch that legitimately protects our country

Er...so does the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines...as well as the C.I.A. and several other services that keep us protected from the bad guys...

and is constantly risking their necks to save people's lives.

Er...ask some of the vets from Iraq, Afghanistan and the other theaters of operation around the world if they aren't doing this as well...with a heavier loss of life of their fellow soldiers than the Coast Guard...(I am not putting the Coast Guard down, but to put them in a different category than some of the other heavy lifters in national defense could be seen as...not nice...)

 

[Makalakumu]

Er...so does the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines...as well as the C.I.A. and several other services that keep us protected from the bad guys...



Er...ask some of the vets from Iraq, Afghanistan and the other theaters of operation around the world if they aren't doing this as well...with a heavier loss of life of their fellow soldiers than the Coast Guard...(I am not putting the Coast Guard down, but to put them in a different category than some of the other heavy lifters in national defense could be seen as...not nice...)

Calling everything the US military does "defense" changes the meaning of that word. Americans need to be more honest about what is actually happening around the world. It's the only we can truly honor the people who sign up with the idea of "defending" our country in their heart.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/221774/37/Marine-Helps-9-Year-Old-Cross-Finish-Line

I found more people like this in the military than the news would leave you to think. Semper Fi Marine.

 

[Makalakumu]

http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/221774/37/Marine-Helps-9-Year-Old-Cross-Finish-Line

I found more people like this in the military than the news would leave you to think. Semper Fi Marine.

It's a shame this person serves a system that wages aggressive wars, commits war crimes, and uses bodies up without conscience or regret.

This is the other side of the coin. You get the perks if you take the risks.

 

[oftheherd1]

On the surface it's a really good opportunity. You don't get paid much, but the bonuses and perks can be substantial. If you retire after 20years of service, you have the means to pursue something else. And the retirement package can be substantial. Also, veterans have first dibs at most well paying government jobs. And, if you're an officer, you are going to do really well. Many of the million dollar homes on Oahu are owned by retired officers. They usually have several houses on the mainland as well.

So, it doesn't surprise me that the poor and uneducated are under represented in the military. Service in the military has become even more attractive because so many well paying private sector jobs have dried up. On the whole, I think the overall state of the economy drives this. As more private sector jobs are outsourced, we'll see even more competition from middle and upper middle income families.

Bonuses are only paid to enlisted, or at least when I was in. There was also a cap on the amount that could be paid, and you usually hit the cap on your second or third enlistment. Perks, I don't know what you mean there. I mean I got three hots and a cot, but I got a very small amount of monthly pay as well. I had commissary and PX, but that has eroded to the point you can often do better off post for food, clothing and appliances. Gasoline is much more expensive on post than off. Were there other perks you thought were off-setting?

I don't get your point about the poor being underrepresented in the military. If they meet the criteria, whatever that may be, they have the same opportunity. If a recruiter has plenty of volunteers, he may be allowed to start ranking them, but that would not automatically exclude the poor, and wouldn't be a criteria anyway.

As to rich officers, I guess you are talking about admirals. I can't comment on that as I wasn't in the Navy. If you are talking about Army Generals, in my experience, they weren't poor, but they weren't among the super rich either. Too many social obligagions.

Retirement at 20 years is 1/2 base pay. The clever thing the government does is part of the pay congress authorizes is at the discretion of the president, put into benefits; clothing allowance, subsistance (which a lower enlisted probably wouldn't get anyway, etc. So if, as an example, when I retired, I was making $1000 a month, $400 or more could be benefits. I would then only get 1/2 of the remainder, or $300 a month.

The congress' attitude toward military pay is quite insidious. Remember what I said about pay versus benefits? My social security is based on my military pay. Military pay and benefits seldom is on a level with civilian (at least in those jobs that have a civilian counterpart) jobs. Then take out the benefits and you will find my actual pay is rather meager. I made more bagging groceries before I enlisted than when I joined. When I joined, I got about $74 a month. That is what went into my social security. So I don't get as much social security as a civilian of my age who got most everything as salary towards social security. I am surprised that if you see it as such a better thing than civilian pursuits, you didn't join the military for a career.

Calling everything the US military does "defense" changes the meaning of that word. Americans need to be more honest about what is actually happening around the world. It's the only we can truly honor the people who sign up with the idea of "defending" our country in their heart.

Well, I don't think I can agree with that, but then you didn't define defense, so I can't be sure. Thanks in advance if you wouldn't mind doing that?

It's a shame this person serves a system that wages aggressive wars, commits war crimes, and uses bodies up without conscience or regret.

This is the other side of the coin. You get the perks if you take the risks.

I find that quite irksome. Which branch of the military were you in, and when? You can't really make the above broad statements unless you were, or have some personal experience of serving in combat. Otherwise, you are simply spewing out things you have heard or read, that fit a belief you want to savor, and have no factual basis for your assertions.

Knowing there may have been crimes or improprieties committed on rare occasions is not the same as painting every service member with that flawed brush. Nor does it give any branch of the military credit for honestly investigating allegations of those crimes, and making anyone for whom proof can be found that they committed those crimes, face the military judicial system. Had you ever heard of that?

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, I don't think I can agree with that, but then you didn't define defense, so I can't be sure. Thanks in advance if you wouldn't mind doing that?

Defense is a limited response to the initiation of force whose intent is to protect life and property. Which actions that are taken by the US military services fit this definition?

As to the rest of your post, I'll post more later if I have time.