Which "America" is THIS??!!

[elder999]

An article from the New York Times gives a shocking description of the death of Hiu Liu Ng, also known as Jason Ng. Cause of death? Untreated cancer after nearly a year in an ICE detention center. Ng was a 34 year old computer programmer who worked at the Empire State Building and the father of two young sons. He was married to a U.S. citizen and was seeking his green card. Originally from Hong Kong, he had lived over half of his life in the United States. Not your typical or convenient description of an "illegal alien."

Would this have happened to a U.S. citizen? No. Did Jesus say in Matthew 25, "For I was sick and you questioned my documentation status, I was in prison and you reminded me that I was an illegal in the first place?" No.

Shouldn’t we as Americans be outraged at the mistreatement of vulnerable people, regardless of their origin or status?

Please read this article about Ng's death and the response of our government, which denied him medical treatment, access to a wheelchair, and visits from family members and attorneys because he was too weak to enter the visitor's area.

This is a real story of loss and suffering at the hands of a broken system. Even when people enter our country the "right way," nothing is guaranteed and nothing is certain. Our current ailing system, riddled with mistakes, loopholes and extended processes led to broken dreams and broken lives in the case of Hiu Lui Ng and his entire family.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That is just wrong and incredibly sad

And yet the 3 illegal, from a spanish speaking nation, that were caught in a small town in upstate NY by a local PD were let go because the local PD was told by Immigration that it was to far out of their way to bother coming to get them so the local PD had to let them go

 

[Twin Fist]

not a good idea to be an ILLEGAL alien i guess.

who would have thunk it?

 

[elder999]

not a good idea to be an ILLEGAL alien i guess.

who would have thunk it?

A serial-killing, pedophilic axe-murderer, who had been convicted by a jury and sentenced to a dozen or more consecutive life terms would have received medical care in prison.

This particular ILLEGAL alien hadn't done anything wrong.....(did you read the article?)

 

[Xue Sheng]

The real sad part is that if he had only been in this country a short time he would have been much better at understanding every little detail of the system. I am amazed at how little most Americans know about the immigration system and how much immigrants do know. Where an American wants to hire Immigration lawyer to deal with all things immigration an immigrant won’t and they generally does better within the system. The fact that he was here so long put him in the same mindset we generally have in the US of trying to follow the rules to a T and in some cases in that system that gets you hurt.

And it is very possible if he had claimed affiliation with Fulan Gong he would have been instantaneously granted asylum, go figure, Fulan Gong is a cult no doubt about it but if you scream Chinese religious oppression enough we (the US) buy it hook line and sinker. But I am guessing he tried to do things on the up and up through the proper channels and was honest about everything.

All in all the system needs fixing. They just recently changed their pricing to make it more expensive telling all it would be quicker but they warned many in advance so a whole lot of people applied for citizenship and then those that applied after the date, that paid more money, ended up waiting twice as long as they would have previously before the price change that was to make things quicker.

 

[Twin Fist]

he had done something wrong, he was here illegally

he broke the law

that being said, i would think ice would have some type of medical aide available.

bet they will now

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

The Immigration system is terrible!! I filed my wife's paper work and between Immigration and Social secruity noone knows that they are doing!!

Speaking of Immigration lawyers a sad thing happen to a neighbor or mine.
His wife was a U.S. citizen he was not they filed their paperwork with an Immigration lawyer. But because the lawyer made a mistake on one of the papers the guy was deported. The wife stays in America with the 2 kids and he is stuck in his own country.

It is terrible to have died from the pain of Cancer. I agree refusual of medical treatment for a Cancer patient is torture.
I am glad his story is told so maybe for others they will not die in such a cruel fashion.

 

[punisher73]

A serial-killing, pedophilic axe-murderer, who had been convicted by a jury and sentenced to a dozen or more consecutive life terms would have received medical care in prison.

This particular ILLEGAL alien hadn't done anything wrong.....(did you read the article?)

As for doing anything wrong, it depends on how you are defining that. Being in the US illegally is a federal crime. He did not leave when he was supposed to. Also, US citizenship when it comes to marriage means nothing if you are not here legally and the deportation proceeding has already started, meaning you can't get married and get to stay.

The US Supreme Court has ruled that incarcerated persons do NOT have the right to the best possible medical care, only adequate. That is up to debate depending on interpretation. I know in MANY facilities, they will not allow incarcerated persons narcotic pain medications due to the misuse and persons trying to sell them off to other people.

That being said, our facility also lies on the side of caution and investigates medical claims to avoid civil liability. We have a 24hr nursing staff and a doctor on staff monday through friday 7-3 and on call the rest of the time. We house about 250 illegal immigrants for DICE in Michigan.

 

[elder999]

he had done something wrong, he was here illegally

he broke the law

that being said, i would think ice would have some type of medical aide available.

bet they will now

From the article:

Born in China, he entered the United States legally on a tourist visa. Mr. Ng stayed on after it expired and applied for political asylum. He was granted a work permit while his application was pending, and though asylum was eventually denied, immigration authorities did not seek his deportation for many years.
Meanwhile, his sister said, Mr. Ng (pronounced Eng), who was known as Jason, graduated from high school in Long Island City, Queens, worked his way through community technical college, passed Microsoft training courses and won a contract to provide computer services to a company with offices in the Empire State Building
In 2001, a notice ordering him to appear in immigration court was mistakenly sent to a nonexistent address, records show. When Mr. Ng did not show up at the hearing, the judge ordered him deported. By then, however, he was getting married, and on a separate track, his wife petitioned Citizenship and Immigration Services for a green card for him — a process that took more than five years. Heeding bad legal advice, the couple showed up for his green card interview on July 19, 2007, only to find enforcement agents waiting to arrest Mr. Ng on the old deportation order

So.....he wasn't here "illegally" until thejudge issued the deportation order, the way I understand it-he had a work permit and legal residence. He didn't receive the hearing notice because it was sent to the wrong adress, and he showed up for an interview only to be arrested. The only reason for his being detained-instead of sent back to China-was because of his pending appeal-who knows what the outcome would have been, but we can guess...in any case he should have received medical attention.

I look at posts like yours, Don's and Punishers (who at least has the benefit of some direct experience) and I still have to ask which "America" I'm living in.......:angry:

 

[Twin Fist]

seriously, he KNEW when his visa expired

15 + years, yet he never tried to become an american...

yes, the medical thing is a shame, and I am sure it wont happen again.

but i save my sympathy for the non illegals, the ones trying to become americans..

 

[Big Don]

I look at posts like yours, Don's and Punishers (who at least has the benefit of some direct experience) and I still have to ask which "America" I'm living in.......:angry:

This is my first post in this thread, I assume an apology will be forthcoming.

 

[celtic_crippler]

North America

 

[MJS]

Can we keep personal shots out of this thread please. As I've said many times before, everyone has his/her opinions. While we may not agree with them, lets do our best to respect them.

Thanks.

 

[elder999]

This is my first post in this thread, I assume an apology will be forthcoming.

Sorry.....

 

[elder999]

Can we keep personal shots out of this thread please. As I've said many times before, everyone has his/her opinions. While we may not agree with them, lets do our best to respect them.

Thanks.

Just to clarify-

The way I see this particular incident, the individual in question wound up in detention because of a misunderstanding: he didn't receive notice of a hearing, didn't show up for the hearing, and was ordered deported. Prior to that, he'd had a work permit.which sounds to me like he was here legally. Misunderstandings happen, and I can accept that. I can even accept the idea that he wound up being detained until the disposition of his case: stay or go.Makes sense to me.

What I can't undedrstand, and what doesn't make sense, is the callous disregard for this man's health by the people in whose care he was entrusted. What I can't understand is how anyone can look at the particular circumstances outlined in this case and say "So what, he broke the law. Bad things happen to people who break the law," or words to that effect. What I can't understand, then, is their opinions on this matter-and they're their opinions, not Xue Sheng's or anyone else's on this thread. And it's not a shot-I see people say things like that, and I wonder which "America" they live in-or think they live in-because I refuse to live there....

 

[Sukerkin]

Nice clarification, Elder.

I know that it's hard, when opinions are seen on screen that widely diverge from your belief system, not to 'fire back' in a strong fashion. However, I genuinely feel that in the long run keeping things civil leads to a more useful debate in the on-line world.

From personal experience, I am much more measured in my respones on-line than I am in the 3-D world primarily because I have more time to think about and self-monitor what I am typing. It doesn't always work out that way of course - sometimes the extra time just leads to my being more intemperate than I otherwise would have been . However, as a general rule it's not a bad one to take a few moments on occasion before impacting fingers to keyboard. I've lost count of the times I haven't posted something because I'd begun hammering keys in hot blood and then belatedly realised that it's "just the internet" .

 

[punisher73]

Just to clarify-

The way I see this particular incident, the individual in question wound up in detention because of a misunderstanding: he didn't receive notice of a hearing, didn't show up for the hearing, and was ordered deported. Prior to that, he'd had a work permit.which sounds to me like he was here legally. Misunderstandings happen, and I can accept that. I can even accept the idea that he wound up being detained until the disposition of his case: stay or go.Makes sense to me.

What I can't undedrstand, and what doesn't make sense, is the callous disregard for this man's health by the people in whose care he was entrusted. What I can't understand is how anyone can look at the particular circumstances outlined in this case and say "So what, he broke the law. Bad things happen to people who break the law," or words to that effect. What I can't understand, then, is their opinions on this matter-and they're their opinions, not Xue Sheng's or anyone else's on this thread. And it's not a shot-I see people say things like that, and I wonder which "America" they live in-or think they live in-because I refuse to live there....

HMMM, not sure how I get lumped into the callous category either. I NEVER gave an opinion on his (mis)treatment. I only commented on the comment about not doing anything wrong. Even in the article you posted it said his work visa had EXPIRED and then he applied for assylum, he was given a temporary work permit while his application was being process, which was denied. He knew at that point that he wasn't here legally.

My other comments were not opinion either, it was FACT that the Supreme Court has ruled in the past that incarcerated inmates are not entitled to the best possible care, and I pointed out that it was open to interpretation on what is required medical care. I also, pointed out why many facilities do not give out medications stronger than over the counter meds.

NOW IS MY OPINION: Having worked for 6 1/2 years in a jail and dealing with close to 600 inmates at a time in our facility. Almost ALL of them as soon as they are in jail become medically incapacitated. They don't take their meds out on the street, but as soon as they get in jail they DEMAND that they start getting them (BTW all confirmed meds are given). You also have a high percentage of inmates who are "drug seekers" meaning that they are trying to fake back injuries to get muscle relaxers or something stronger. I'm NOT saying it's excusable, but I can see how things like this can happen. When 90 or so out of a 100 complaints are someone "crying wolf" you are going to get an occasional legitimate one. It's unforunate when the legitimate ones get missed because of all the other people just trying to get one over to get high or get out of the building for the day.

As a side note: It mentioned that he was shackled and handcuffed, our policy is that ALL inmates when being transported out of the building for any reason are placed in leg irons and bellychains. That in and of itself is not unusual do to, and is not a mistreatment of an inmate.

 

[arnisador]

he had done something wrong, he was here illegally

he broke the law

It's not about what he did.

It's about us living in a country that would let a human being die of cancer because of such a thing. Is that the kind of country you want to live in?

 

[Twin Fist]

Actually, i would like ice prisoners, and all prisoners to have medical treatment available to them.

But here is the rub

you cannot expect all the benefits of a society when you break the rules that society has in place.

yeah, i feel bad that the guy died. However, his illegal status negates most if not all of my sympathy.

I live in texas. Illegal aliens are a blight on this state, like they are in NM, Arizona and California.

I am all out of "give a crap" when it comes to illegal aliens. And that is what this guy was.

It's not about what he did.

It's about us living in a country that would let a human being die of cancer because of such a thing. Is that the kind of country you want to live in?

 

[Cryozombie]

Is that the kind of country you want to live in?

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