When is someone "Too young" for MA or for a BB for that matter?

[Tez3]

Agree or disagree with things all of you say is not the point, the point is it is enjoyable to read all of your bright and honest opinions! Thanks for the entertainment

That sounds suspiciously like trolling you know.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Tez raised an interesting point about the age of kids participating in Martial Arts... It is true that most kids in this country at least do not travel to northern china and sit outside the shaolin temple and wait to be accepted as a pupil... but is there an age that is "too" young?

Depends greatly on the child and the art in question. I think that a school that teaches kids in the single digit age ranges needs to have a well developed child program that takes into account that a child's body is not fully developed and that many kids will not develop the crispness or coordination of other kids until later in life. Some kids are just plain uncoordinated until their mid to late teens, others are not.

Children also are still developing their bones, tendons, and joints. Certain types of movements and exercises can be injurious to young children while beneficial to teens and adults.

That said, getting kids off of the couch and onto the mat and moving around is never a bad thing. Kids should be prepared for the sort of things that kids can expect.

A good WTF sport program is, in my opinion, very beneficial for young kids.

How about earning a Black Belt? Is there an age that is "too" young to earn one? (I have actually heard there are some MA's that have a minimum age limit for BBs).

15 for first dan. The Kukkiwon has poom belts for kids younger and other organizations have junior blackbelts.

Frankly, I'm less concerned about the color of the belt than the context of the belt.

The WTF uses the belt color for competition bracketing, along with gender, age, and weight. This ensures that two taekwondoists of the same gender, age and size ranges, and same belt level compete against each other, rather than a Daehan Park (see Best of the best if you do not know the reference) fighting your 80 pound twelve year old daughter.

Would Love to hear Everyone's opinion on these two subjects.
Or let us know when you started MA's for that matter

I was seven.

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

Depends greatly on the child and the art in question. I think that a school that teaches kids in the single digit age ranges needs to have a well developed child program that takes into account that a child's body is not fully developed and that many kids will not develop the crispness or coordination of other kids until later in life. Some kids are just plain uncoordinated until their mid to late teens, others are not.
Absolutely.

Children also are still developing their bones, tendons, and joints. Certain types of movements and exercises can be injurious to young children while beneficial to teens and adults.
Something to be very careful of.

That said, getting kids off of the couch and onto the mat and moving around is never a bad thing. Kids should be prepared for the sort of things that kids can expect.

Not at too young an age though, I think 6 or 7 is a good age to start. Any younger and you're probably wasting money on martial arts training and there's plenty you can do with very young children yourself.

A good WTF sport program is, in my opinion, very beneficial for young kids.

Thats very children orientated and shouldn't be confused with more traditional martial arts I think


15 for first dan. The Kukkiwon has poom belts for kids younger and other organizations have junior blackbelts.

Frankly, I'm less concerned about the color of the belt than the context of the belt.

The WTF uses the belt color for competition bracketing, along with gender, age, and weight. This ensures that two taekwondoists of the same gender, age and size ranges, and same belt level compete against each other, rather than a Daehan Park (see Best of the best if you do not know the reference) fighting your 80 pound twelve year old daughter.

That's fair enough most competitive sports do this but this is going to lead onto the discussion sport v martial art lol. Most of us don't do martial arts as a sport.


I was seven.

about the right age I think.

Daniel

.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

A good WTF sport program is, in my opinion, very beneficial for young kids.

Thats very children orientated and shouldn't be confused with more traditional martial arts I think

The WTF uses the belt color for competition bracketing, along with gender, age, and weight. This ensures that two taekwondoists of the same gender, age and size ranges, and same belt level compete against each other, rather than a Daehan Park (see Best of the best if you do not know the reference) fighting your 80 pound twelve year old daughter.

That's fair enough most competitive sports do this but this is going to lead onto the discussion sport v martial art lol. Most of us don't do martial arts as a sport.

True, but a good WTF program will also include forms. The belt also determines what forms a student may use in competition.

A well done WTF children's program provides the student with a fairly solid foundation for a more traditional art without pushing the student further than they are capable of going.

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

True, but a good WTF program will also include forms. The belt also determines what forms a student may use in competition.

With complete Bunkai?

A well done WTF children's program provides the student with a fairly solid foundation for a more traditional art without pushing the student further than they are capable of going.

This is all that is needed, age appropriate syllabus and age appropriate gradings, no 4th Dans at age 6 but instead a good solid foundation with which to start training in earnest with.

Daniel

.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

True, but a good WTF program will also include forms. The belt also determines what forms a student may use in competition.

With complete Bunkai?

Assuming that the bunkai techniques are age appropriate, sure. Though with a kids program, I'd be happy with them learning the forms correctly.

In this area, I'd say that simply learning the forms correctly is more important. It helps the child to transition between stances, develop coordination, balance, and power, and to perform distinct techniques. Roundhouse kicks should look like roundhouse kicks, side kicks like side kicks. Inside out and outside in blocks should be distinct.

Too often, I see young kids doing forms that look like they are just moving their hands and feet around and approximating the locations of where the hands and feet should be rather than actually performing distinct techniques.

Get the child to the point where they can perform the basic motions of the form correctly and with reasonable power and precision before moving them into more advanced applications of those moves.

Which brings us to this:

A well done WTF children's program provides the student with a fairly solid foundation for a more traditional art without pushing the student further than they are capable of going.

This is all that is needed, age appropriate syllabus and age appropriate gradings, no 4th Dans at age 6 but instead a good solid foundation with which to start training in earnest with.

Amen to that!

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

I'm a great believer in them knowing why they are doing kata, it actually helps them do them properly if they realise it's not 'dancing'. We are huge fans and believers in Iain Abernethy's Bunkai training, it's actually very easy to pass on to the children and they enjoy it. Puts that extra bit of 'oomph' into their kata.

 

[ATC]

Assuming that the bunkai techniques are age appropriate, sure. Though with a kids program, I'd be happy with them learning the forms correctly.

In this area, I'd say that simply learning the forms correctly is more important. It helps the child to transition between stances, develop coordination, balance, and power, and to perform distinct techniques. Roundhouse kicks should look like roundhouse kicks, side kicks like side kicks. Inside out and outside in blocks should be distinct.

Too often, I see young kids doing forms that look like they are just moving their hands and feet around and approximating the locations of where the hands and feet should be rather than actually performing distinct techniques.

Get the child to the point where they can perform the basic motions of the form correctly and with reasonable power and precision before moving them into more advanced applications of those moves.

When you stop and think about it, this is the same approach taken with adults, or should be. I see way to many adults with worse forms than many kids. You can explain all the Bunkai in the world to an adult but they are just like anyone (kids included) and will have bad techniques, stances, and transitions. Most adults that start out are just as poorly coordinated as kids and have worse flexibility and stamina. Because they are larger and taller there center of balance is way off and they have developed longer lasting muscle memory habits that are harder to break than any kids.

The teaching structure for a kid and an adult is not really that different. They both have to learn the same things in the same progressions. The only difference is how you go about it. With kids you have to make it fun or more like a game. You don't need to teach the Bunkai nor do you with adults in the beginning either. Egos tend to tell adults otherwise. Explaining the Bunkai does nothing for the correct stance, transition, or proper technique. I still see the same sloppiness.

Even if you watch the Karate Kid there are some good lessons in there. The way he taught with the jacket is a good example. Only after he thought that muscle memory was sufficient did he go into the Bunkai.

Adults and kids should really learn the same way. Just as Daniel explained. That as was an excellent break down of how everyone should learn. In my opinion of course.

 

[Fing Fang Foom]

Its seems rather someone is "for" or "against" children BB's is based on when they or their children started.... nothing more....:duh: