When did you start practicing on the wooden dummy?

[kehcorpz]

I emailed one school and asked the instructor if they have dummies and how exactly this works, wether you can
train on them whenever you like to.

He said that training on dummies makes no sense at all unless you have trained a few years and reached a certain degree I think he
said 4. degree, whatever this means.

Is this normal? To me this sounds like a cheap excuse for not having to provide dummies for the students to practice on.

And I can almost bet that in order to even reach this necessary degree you have to take private lessons which cost extra.

What's your take on this?

I heard that you should start with the dummy early on cause it offers benefits.

 

[KPM]

Was it a Wing Chun school? This depends on the lineage of Wing Chun and the instructor. The dummy form itself doesn't come until you are several years into the curriculum in most Wing Chun schools. Some instructors may allow beginning students to start training some basic exercises, some may not. In Ku Lo Pin Sun Wing Chun everything has a dummy version right from the beginning. So the student starts using the dummy right away. But this is not typical for Ip Man Wing Chun.

 

[Danny T]

There is no written rule.
Different instructors, different teaching methods.
What is important is do you enjoy the instruction and training your are getting? If so, keep on learning and enjoying yourself. When the instructor is ready for you to begin learning on the dummy then you will.
Using the dummy for some training or doing some drills on is not the same as learning the wooden dummy form.

 

[kehcorpz]

But I'd like to start with a dummy asap cause I imagine this to be really fun.

But if the school doesn't even have dummies standing around then you also cannot train on them.

I emailed various schools and the replies all sounded like "yeah we do have a dummy". A dummy.

I was expecting that schools have at least a few dummies not just 1. Is this normal?!

 

[Danny T]

But I'd like to start with a dummy asap cause I imagine this to be really fun.

But if the school doesn't even have dummies standing around then you also cannot train on them.

I emailed various schools and the replies all sounded like "yeah we do have a dummy". A dummy.

I was expecting that schools have at least a few dummies not just 1. Is this normal?!

Few have more than 1.
They are expensive... so the schools need good long term paying students to afford them more than one.
Do you even know what the dummy is for?
Because of what the tool is designed for it usually isn't utilized until the student has a particular level of skill prior to being allowed to train on the dummy.

 

[kehcorpz]

Expensive? I don't think so. They cost a few hundred bucks. That's not much for a school.

I'd even buy one for myself if I knew how to use it.

 

[Danny T]

Expensive? I don't think so. They cost a few hundred bucks. That's not much for a school.

I'd even buy one for myself if I knew how to use it.

Then go train, learn and gain the skills needed to use the dummy properly. Purchase one and use it.
You are complaining about monthly fees being too expensive and don't want to pay them but expect the school to have all the equipment. You don't want them to make money on the extras, ie... uniforms, required training gear but expect them to have all the other equipment like dummies, heavy bags, etc. How do you expect them to have equipment when you don't feel the students should have to pay the fees, uniforms, and equipment?

 

[KPM]

Expensive? I don't think so. They cost a few hundred bucks. That's not much for a school.

I'd even buy one for myself if I knew how to use it.

Uh. No. A decent dummy that can take normal abuse runs around $800 to $1200. One that costs "a few hundred bucks" likely wouldn't be worth owning. It certainly wouldn't stand up to the abuse it would get in the typical Wing Chun school!

 

[kehcorpz]

But where shall I learn the skills?

Obviously the teacher doesn't teach this to beginners cause according to him you dont need this.

You could probably learn this in private lessons which cost a fortune....

 

[Danny T]

But where shall I learn the skills?

Obviously the teacher doesn't teach this to beginners cause according to him you dont need this.

You could probably learn this in private lessons which cost a fortune....

Then take the group classes, learn the material, practice and gain the skills so you can then use the dummy.
Easy.

If I were the instructor even as a private student I wouldn't teach you something you aren't ready for. That would be a waste of your time & money...And in that I would be ripping you off.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I emailed one school and asked the instructor if they have dummies and how exactly this works, wether you can
train on them whenever you like to.

He said that training on dummies makes no sense at all unless you have trained a few years and reached a certain degree I think he
said 4. degree, whatever this means.

Is this normal? To me this sounds like a cheap excuse for not having to provide dummies for the students to practice on.

And I can almost bet that in order to even reach this necessary degree you have to take private lessons which cost extra.

What's your take on this?

I heard that you should start with the dummy early on cause it offers benefits.

Instructor should've replied yeah I have one dummy emailing me right now

 

[Azulx]

I'm starting to get the feeling that all these posts are a series of jokes. This guy can't be serious, he can't. There is no way.

 

[anerlich]

I'm starting to get the feeling that all these posts are a series of jokes. This guy can't be serious, he can't. There is no way.

Either that or he is the unluckiest b@stard in Christendom and totally unable to help himself.

 

[Phobius]

But where shall I learn the skills?

Obviously the teacher doesn't teach this to beginners cause according to him you dont need this.

You could probably learn this in private lessons which cost a fortune....

Yea, the teacher is withholding that secret juice which is the dummy form. He probably thinks that if he shows you the magical moves in the dummy form you will become an unbeatable fighter instantly and will before he knows it be able to smash rocks with your fists by pure mental projection alone.

I believe that schools in general are too slow to teach the forms causing people to think that parts of system is the whole deal. However doing stuff on the dummy, well we did some basic movements already from day one. Was not because wooden dummy allowed us to train some magical properties. We were simply uneven numbers and someone had to stand with the dummy occassionally. Good place to focus on the movement and not be blinded thinking it is an actual application based technique. Dummy form itself in the hands of a dummy is a disaster, talk about having no clue what they are doing and so intent on destroying themselves it is almost silly. Trying to tell them what they are doing wrong is even worse because they have better knowledge of what the dummy is used for such as hitting it full force making your knuckles bleed to just show how cool and powerful they are. Especially being all stiff and rigid of course.

Now you are silly. You do not need private lessons to learn wooden dummy form. You already know it after having watched multiple videos of it. In fact there is not much these clubs can teach you that you do not already know yourself. Truth be told they are just gonna be holding you back from becoming the greatest badass warrior this world has ever seen. Only thing you need to become the best is to get someone to tell you which videos you should watch of which art, so you waste less of your precious time.

 

[PiedmontChun]

But where shall I learn the skills?

Obviously the teacher doesn't teach this to beginners cause according to him you dont need this.

You could probably learn this in private lessons which cost a fortune....

An analogous example: There is an English professor who teaches creative writing. A child comes to them wanting to learn to write. You say "Let me teach you the alphabet first". The child is angry but learns their alphabet, then asks again. Teacher tells them "Let me teach you vocabulary, grammar, and syntax". The child is frustrated but learns. The child asks again, and now that there is a foundation the teacher can move on to actually teaching the student to write.

Griping about not being able to learn on a dummy from a teacher you have not even learned any basics from yet is the equivalent of a child running away from the teacher and telling others how awful it is that he won't teach you to write when the child doesn't grasp the tools that would make writing make any coherent sense. Did I call you a child? No, it was just incidental as part of my analogy. But griping about not being able to use a dummy because you "think it would be cool" is just even more face palm worthy, no offense.

For the record, I don't claim to be highly skilled in WC. I am a Chum Kiu level student. I do have my own dummy at home, which I use to practice certain things, but its ended up being fairly rare. I have plenty else to work on without feeling like I am "missing out" on the dummy. The Biu Jee level students at my school use the dummy, learning portions of the form itself, but not even the whole form.

 

[kehcorpz]

I believe that schools in general are too slow to teach the forms causing people to think that parts of system is the whole deal. However doing stuff on the dummy, well we did some basic movements already from day one.

To me the only explanation is money. Dummies cost money and also teaching dummy forms to students cannot be done in huge places where you
have 50 people running around. Doing drills is much easier you just need 2 people training with each other.

This highly bothers me when I feel like a school simply withholds dummies with silly explanations for monetary reasons.

Also he said dummies don't come before the 4th degree. And guess what? Before you can even get there you have to do
all kinds of exams which also cost extra money. It's all far out in the future. Seems a bit like scientology. Oh yeah you will get there
one day it only costs a lot of money and time..

 

[kehcorpz]

An analogous example: There is an English professor who teaches creative writing. A child comes to them wanting to learn to write. You say "Let me teach you the alphabet first". The child is angry but learns their alphabet, then asks again. Teacher tells them "Let me teach you vocabulary, grammar, and syntax". The child is frustrated but learns. The child asks again, and now that there is a foundation the teacher can move on to actually teaching the student to write.

First of, I heard other teachers say you should start with dummies early on!

I also didn't say start with dummies on the first day. But when he says that generally dummies make no sense before a certain degree then
this seems highly suspicious to me.

 

[PiedmontChun]

Many movements can be done on the dummy early on, and is completely optional. The dummy is pretty necessary for learning the specific dummy form. If you are not learning the dummy form and its particular movements, then logically the only things you would practice on the dummy are things you would already be working on via the empty hand forms and in drills with a training partner, and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who says its more beneficial to practice with a dummy than with a live partner. Sooooo..... the idea of showing up to class and working on a dummy instead of with a training partner just.... makes no sense. Unless your goal is get the satisfaction of whacking wooden arms because it feels cool, instead of learning the art in logical progression (there is plenty to chew on without ever touching a dummy).

 

[kehcorpz]

Unless your goal is get the satisfaction of whacking wooden arms because it feels cool, instead of learning the art in logical progression (there is plenty to chew on without ever touching a dummy).

Yes I would want that.

I would AT LEAST be given the opportunity of deciding wether I want to practice with a dummy or not.

With a dummy you could at least practice alone if you buy one. But you don't have a training partner at home for the drills.

This would make quite a difference if you can actually train stuff at home or if you just waste time between training sessions,

 

[Phobius]

Yes I would want that.

I would AT LEAST be given the opportunity of deciding wether I want to practice with a dummy or not.

With a dummy you could at least practice alone if you buy one. But you don't have a training partner at home for the drills.

This would make quite a difference if you can actually train stuff at home or if you just waste time between training sessions,

If you want to train alone at home, for god sake do the forms. Do calisthenics. Build yourself a proper body and learn good body structure and posture. Dummy will not teach you anything unless you are good enough to understand what it can teach. Initially the only thing a dummy can be used for is mimic, this is adequate replacement for a partner on simpler drill but it does not give sufficient training to be a worthy aim.

Dummy does not teach you anything except what you yourself do. You can not do anything because you dont know what to train.

Once you know what you need to train then you do not need the dummy form, only the dummy to train on.

So it does not matter. When I say it takes too long for forms to get introduced I am not talking about waiting months, I am talking about some waiting 5-10 years. Also I do not consider learning dummy form as the secret juice. All forms are important and jumping straight to dummy form will just damage your skill since you are ignorant of what it is for.