Wing chun legitimacy.

Dummy

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This wing chun "sifu" is talking about closing the gap , but what he demonstrates is just walking into a guy and overpowering him because of his size , is this even wing chun? , is the tkd guy being too humble? or is the WC guy being too cocky? Bottom line , because of the attitude that the wing chun guy posseses at the end of the video i felt like i came out respecting the tkd guy more just because he was raising a valid argument that was being replied with considerable agression. And frankly just looking at how unfit the wing chun instructor is, its embarrassing , the guy almost tripped himself over twice, you can also notice how out of breath he was after the demonstration. Well i may not have the best eye for detail so your opinions would be a great means of insight.
 
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hunt1

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First it doesnt matter how fat etc the guy is. Is what he does effect and will it be effective for others is the questions. The entry he uses is not based on his size and is one way a closing the gap that can work. Notice is slow motion he steps in and uses por cheung/pak/gum to intercept and control the karate guy's lead arm. By controlling the arm he gains control of the cog and the okarate guy is caught trying to kick and is prevented from kicking.

Now does the wing chun guy get away with slppy technique because of his size? Yes. Could his structure be better? yes. But the technique is legit.





This wing chun "sifu" is talking about closing the gap , but what he demonstrates is just walking into a guy and overpowering him because of his size , is this even wing chun? , is the tkd guy being too humble? or is the WC guy being too cocky? Bottom line , because of the attitude that the wing chun guy posseses at the end of the video i felt like i came out respecting the tkd guy more just because he was raising a valid argument that was being replied with considerable agression. And frankly just looking at how unfit the wing chun instructor is, its embarrassing , the guy almost tripped himself over twice, you can also notice how out of breath he was after the demonstration. Well i may not have the best eye for detail so your opinions would be a great means of insight.
 
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Dummy

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First it doesnt matter how fat etc the guy is. Is what he does effect and will it be effective for others is the questions. The entry he uses is not based on his size and is one way a closing the gap that can work. Notice is slow motion he steps in and uses por cheung/pak/gum to intercept and control the karate guy's lead arm. By controlling the arm he gains control of the cog and the okarate guy is caught trying to kick and is prevented from kicking.

Now does the wing chun guy get away with slppy technique because of his size? Yes. Could his structure be better? yes. But the technique is legit.

I don't have anything against the guy ... so ... answer me this , would you consider learning from this guy?
 

K-man

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Whatever you might think of the WC guy, the karate guy was crap. Throwing half **** kicks like that is what you might expect a beginner to do in hs first tournament. I seriously doubt his bb status. Also against an opponent with the bulk of the WC guy you can't just go backwards. You will be over run as happened here. You need to move off the line.

Would I consider learning from this guy? Maybe, but there wasn't enough detail in the video to make that decision. :asian:
 

Cyriacus

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Also against an opponent with the bulk of the WC guy you can't just go backwards. You will be over run as happened here. You need to move off the line.

Id like to add that you could also just dig straight in if you dont have faith in your ability to move to offsets. Its better than failing at the 'better' option. Moving forward takes a bit less 'skill'. :)
 

hunt1

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I don't have anything against the guy ... so ... answer me this , would you consider learning from this guy?


Loaded question. Now? Today? No, I am not aware of anyone I would pay to learn from at this point but then I am listed on the martial altar of Lo Kwai's family as a descendent of Leung Jan's Wing Chun tradition through his second in all challenges Lo Kwai. Our wing chun can be a bit different then what you usually see.
If this was 1983 again and I was just starting out and he was the local wing chun teacher then yes because I wanted to learn wing chun. I was lucky my first teacher was a student of Jui Won and then one of Moy Yats first US disciples. He had a very open attitude about wing chun and always said some wing chun is better than no wing chun.
 
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Loaded question. Now? Today? No, I am not aware of anyone I would pay to learn from at this point but then I am listed on the martial altar of Lo Kwai's family as a descendent of Leung Jan's Wing Chun tradition through his second in all challenges Lo Kwai. Our wing chun can be a bit different then what you usually see.
If this was 1983 again and I was just starting out and he was the local wing chun teacher then yes because I wanted to learn wing chun. I was lucky my first teacher was a student of Jui Won and then one of Moy Yats first US disciples. He had a very open attitude about wing chun and always said some wing chun is better than no wing chun.

I'm slightly envious of you :S you can train with people ... and perhaps people come to you for training too... not many Wc practitioners where im from, but if this guy taught locally i wouldn't learn from him unless i really got to know the guy, one video isn't enough to judge someone but some times a little tells you a whole lot more than a lot...if you feel the question was loaded i couldn't have known since i had no idea about your back ground in Wing Chun.
 
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Whatever you might think of the WC guy, the karate guy was crap. Throwing half **** kicks like that is what you might expect a beginner to do in hs first tournament. I seriously doubt his bb status. Also against an opponent with the bulk of the WC guy you can't just go backwards. You will be over run as happened here. You need to move off the line.

Would I consider learning from this guy? Maybe, but there wasn't enough detail in the video to make that decision. :asian:

i can't really comment on whether one should step in or out since i have a very unorthodox way of fighting but imo what i think the karate guy was doing was asking how he would come in rather than actually trying to throw kicks , not that im trying to defend the karate guy , its just how i interpreted the situation and my opinion is as valid to me as yours is to you. hmmm someone i would really like to train under is this guy right here.

I haven't seen this done before , anywhere. is it really possible to be this good at manipulating chi?

 
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Id like to add that you could also just dig straight in if you dont have faith in your ability to move to offsets. Its better than failing at the 'better' option. Moving forward takes a bit less 'skill'. :)

Cant comment on moving in or out since i have a very unorthodox style of fighting.
 

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First it doesnt matter how fat etc the guy is. Is what he does effect and will it be effective for others is the questions. The entry he uses is not based on his size and is one way a closing the gap that can work. Notice is slow motion he steps in and uses por cheung/pak/gum to intercept and control the karate guy's lead arm. By controlling the arm he gains control of the cog and the okarate guy is caught trying to kick and is prevented from kicking.

Now does the wing chun guy get away with slppy technique because of his size? Yes. Could his structure be better? yes. But the technique is legit.



------------------------------------------------------------------

Agree with Hunt 1. Shannon Moore is a William Cheung TWC guy-not my kind of wc but it's legit.
Sure Moore is big but if he did not know what he was doing he would be in trouble.

joy chaudhuri
 

K-man

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hmmm someone i would really like to train under is this guy right here.

I haven't seen this done before , anywhere. is it really possible to be this good at manipulating chi?

Until I feel it first hand I will reserve my judgement. I have seen and felt some amazing things but this is beyond my experience. :asian:
 
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Dummy

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Until I feel it first hand I will reserve my judgement. I have seen and felt some amazing things but this is beyond my experience. :asian:

Mine too, thats why it feels so amazing ... but i have very solid reasons to believe that the chi manipulation technique shown in the video is legit and i've also found out that it requires a lot of practice in meditation of the void meditation concept(sorry don't know the buddhist name for the meditation technique) but in essence it means to be behind everything and not being behind everything , at first it sounds contradictory but when you meditate on it.. well that a whole other thread , so i will speak no more of it here.
 
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------------------------------------------------------------------

Agree with Hunt 1. Shannon Moore is a William Cheung TWC guy-not my kind of wc but it's legit.
Sure Moore is big but if he did not know what he was doing he would be in trouble.

joy chaudhuri

Fair enough.
 

yak sao

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I watched the video and from what I can tell the karate guy was pushing straight in, allowing the tai chi guy to redirect his force straight into the ground. Whereas the WC guy pushed him up and back, causing him to become uprooted. WC is all about proper structure /body alignment and good body mechanics. The more one masters this, the more subtle it becomes and the more magical it looks. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wing-Tsun-Chinese-Boxing-of-Kentucky/392054967486652
 

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The best fighting is not always pretty. And guys in bad shape are not always bad fighters. My experience is the "fat guys kick some ***". Now, this demonstration was sloppy in my opinion. But the Wing Chun guy was effective against a karate guy that just looked rediculous. Didn't even try to protect his face and as a result got nailed a couple of times. Maybe he wasn't expecting to get hit because it was a demonstration, but that shows me his inexperience, along with his poor execution.
 
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Dummy

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I watched the video and from what I can tell the karate guy was pushing straight in, allowing the tai chi guy to redirect his force straight into the ground. Whereas the WC guy pushed him up and back, causing him to become uprooted. WC is all about proper structure /body alignment and good body mechanics. The more one masters this, the more subtle it becomes and the more magical it looks. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wing-Tsun-Chinese-Boxing-of-Kentucky/392054967486652

That's a very interesting observation and perhaps a valid one , i'm going to do some more research about this and i'll get back to you. The reason i want to research this is because i also have my doubts.
 
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Dummy

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The best fighting is not always pretty. And guys in bad shape are not always bad fighters. My experience is the "fat guys kick some ***". Now, this demonstration was sloppy in my opinion. But the Wing Chun guy was effective against a karate guy that just looked rediculous. Didn't even try to protect his face and as a result got nailed a couple of times. Maybe he wasn't expecting to get hit because it was a demonstration, but that shows me his inexperience, along with his poor execution.

Maybe both of them were sloppy , even if they were think about this for a second , imagine the tkd guy being twice as large and the wing chun guy , how would he close the gap from long range then? you see the question went unanswered.
 

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This wing chun "sifu" is talking about closing the gap , but what he demonstrates is just walking into a guy and overpowering him because of his size , is this even wing chun? , is the tkd guy being too humble? or is the WC guy being too cocky? Bottom line , because of the attitude that the wing chun guy posseses at the end of the video i felt like i came out respecting the tkd guy more just because he was raising a valid argument that was being replied with considerable agression. And frankly just looking at how unfit the wing chun instructor is, its embarrassing , the guy almost tripped himself over twice, you can also notice how out of breath he was after the demonstration. Well i may not have the best eye for detail so your opinions would be a great means of insight.

Don't go to somebody's seminar and try and tell them "your ***** is fake" in a passive agressive manner and you won't get hit. If the guy was sincere, he could have asked to follow up with it after the seminar rather than trying to make a it a big deal in front of everyone.

Shannon Moore carries a lot of extra weight, but the dude seems to be no BS. From some of his training videos, looks like he's reasonably strong under the outer shell too.

*EDIT*
Also remember that we're only seeing a bit of it, for all we know that karate guy was being a jerk all day. Seen that before.
 
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