Whats better for kicking TKD or KENPO or Karate. Need to know

[Blindside]

Hey Judo-kid

I know you want to train to be a UFC fighter, so why don't you go to a gym that specializes in that?

Yes it will be a drive, but you have two good options north of you in Bellevue. THe AMC pankration guys are great grapplers and Maurice Smith's Kickboxing gym does way more than "just" kickboxing. Plus you will be training against people with the same goals and motivations you have. I suspect you will get more out of training just two days a week in a sport-specific regimen rather than 5 days doing different arts.

Training three different arts to do this is just re-inventing the wheel.

If I had to pick a kicking art I would pick Muay-Thai, if not then TKD, but avoid the ATA schools like the plague (just my opinion.)
By the way I'm a kenpo guy, so its not like I'm tooting my system, most kenpo guys just aren't kickers.

Lamont

 

[fissure]

Blineside:

I know you want to train to be a UFC fighter, so why don't you go to a gym that specializes in that?

You've been reading my posts to Judo-kid in other threads haven't you!
Seriously, this is the same advice I gave, but someone responded that M. Smith's school was just for kickboxing?
I find it hard to beleive that he personally competes in UFC, but doesn't offer a program for it.If this is true he is missing out on a nice financial situation!

 

[fanged_seamus]

Judo-kid,

Given that you are looking for something to complement UFC training and don't have access to Muay Thai, I'd guess that TKD is the better bet.

I train in kenpo, and while we are taught a wide variety of kicks, most of them are geared to be strikes to the groin or knee for self-defense. We don't drill the kicks as heavily as we do our upper body strikes.

TKD drills kicks intensively, from what I understand. They have a wide range of kicks as well. You're flexibility will definitely be worked to the max, and that will help your speed. Take what you can from that training and incorporate it into your UFC training.

One other thing to consider is which art trains in jamming kicks. I know kenpo teaches many ways to jam kicks. I don't know if TKD does -- maybe someone else on the forum can help with that. I would think jamming skills would really help against those Muay Thai roundhouse kicks....

Good luck with finding your art!

Tad

 

[Damian Mavis]

Judo Kid: Blindside is right, if you could go train at a place that worked on mma than that would be the place for you to go... but I think you are pretty young and cant drive the hour or whatever it takes to get there right? Maybe take something close by now and when your a little older and able to go out of town you could do that.

Carbon: well if you watch a couple of 3rd or 4th drgree TKD artists competing for the worlds championship you wont actually see them do any jumping or flying kicks. They are going full speed and contact and dont usually risk anything too fancy. However, they are both experts in the same martial art and know exactly how to take advantage of each other if one of them screws up a high jumping kick so it just isnt worth risking when trying to become world champion. Technical kicks for street defence are best left to the experts. The problem with TKD is EVERYONE thinks they are really good and competent, even when they are REALLY bad and slow. This is a generalisation but its true enough. The only people that should ever use a technical jumping kick in a street defence situation should be someone that can kick as fast as a jab punch and hard enough to take your head off. Only a small percent in TKD can do the flashy kicks that well....everyone else should never even consider using them.

By the way.... in TKD terms, Van Damme kicks as slow as molasses. I've never seen him move very fast in his movies when executing his kicks.

Nightingale : I Have to disagree with you, and I know this is just based on your experience so I'm not arguing with you just pointing some thiings out. You cant compare Kenpo's kicking ability to TKD. TKD works hour after hour on kicking, kicking, kicking.... were as Kenpo is more complete by having training in multiple ranges. You take someone with 4 years TKD and someone with 4 years kenpo and the TKD guy is going to have better kicks because it is almost all hes worked on for the past 4 years while the kenpo guy has been working on other things as well. I've also trained with Kenpo guys and they always marvelled at my kicking ability and then would show me all kinds of great stuff that was outside my limitted knowledge as a great kicker because I had only worked on kicks..... this was many many years ago. But I would rather take Kenpo for self defence if given the choice between a traditional TKD school and a Kenpo school.

I can use my own school as an example, I no longer teach TKD the way I was taught. I incorporate everything I've learned from various martial arts that I think is important and I always give credit to that art. What this means is that my students are by far not as good kickers as my colleagues students are in TKD. This also means that when I have a visiting student from a nearby TKD school they look like begginers when I'm showing them how to knee or elbow strike. Time put in = expertise in whatever you use that time training. That visiting student had awesome kicks though!

Fanged seamus: TKD jams by closing the gap between bodies to nullify your opponents kick while he is executing it towards you. If I did that to a Muay Thai guy he would clinch me when I jammed him and he would then knee and elbow me while throwing me around by my neck. Was there another type of jamming you were referring to? Like stopping an opponents kick by pushing their leg at the hip with your foot before they fully execute their kick?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[fanged_seamus]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

Fanged seamus: TKD jams by closing the gap between bodies to nullify your opponents kick while he is executing it towards you. If I did that to a Muay Thai guy he would clinch me when I jammed him and he would then knee and elbow me while throwing me around by my neck. Was there another type of jamming you were referring to? Like stopping an opponents kick by pushing their leg at the hip with your foot before they fully execute their kick?

As a rule of thumb, we're taught "linear beats circular." A straight front kick, aimed at the hip, groin, or thigh of a guy doing a Muay Thai roundhouse to unbalance him meets this rule. That's what I meant by "jamming." I imagine you'd have to catch it EARLY, too, since those kicks have tremendous momentum.

Hope that clarifies what I meant.

Tad

 

[Damian Mavis]

Yes thats exactly what we train in Muay Thai, that kind of "jamming" is part and parcel of the art. It also prevents him from clinching and keeps him off balance.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Carbon]

Kaith hehe this kid is very small and has a large lack of muscle. He is small and it would be hard for him to generate the type of power that you talk about from a grown adult which I am assuming who you were sparring with.

I am just saying what he said, that the fancy kicks that he can do can't generate the type of power he wanted.

Yes you may say that he lacks in technique, but is it true that a 10 year old could have perfect technique but lack the power of an adult? So can you say that technique isn't always what your lacking?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

heh. I've got a nephew whos 8 who packs a punch....but you have a good point. Theres a reason why alot of these guys are built like brick-outhouses.... theres the mass behind the shot.

Ive noticed the lighter guys move faster, the heavier guys hit harder though. Less gets thru the defences, but less has to.

The age/size is something to consider.

:asian:

 

[Kenpo Wolf]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

I've taken both TKD and Kenpo....

From my experience (with 2 different TKD Schools, and 3 kenpo schools) is that TKD will teach you how to kick. TKD will teach you how to kick well. Kenpo will teach you how to kick just as well, and more importantly, kenpo will teach you WHEN to kick.

Awesome quote except that I have never seen a kenpoist kick as well as as a well trained tkd guy . I have to put it in my notebook but where do I direct the credit

BTW, Great thread. A lot of good info without too much needless banter. Keep it up

 

[Master of Blades]

Hapkido for crying out loud! as far as Im aware you learn more kicks and a lot more useful things like Sweeps and so on cuz I dont think your allowed to do them in Tae Kwan Du. But if you dont have a Hapkido place around then Tae Kwan Du. I dont think you'll like it tho cuz it sounds like theres too many restrictions for your kind of style.

 

[Carbon]

This might be off topic but I always liked the ground sweeps performed in movies.

Like when they kick high and a general spin around go to the ground and sweep their back heel. This always seem'd cool but was too much coreagraphed and it would take alot of timing to pull it off.

So that might be off topic but was cool to think about, I think you see this in Ninja movies alot.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by fissure

There's nothing like 'buying into stereotypes', to help with the spreading of miss- information.

I think it's a fair question. TKD has a lot of jumping kicks; why?

It may be a mistake to assume they're meant for combat use as opposed to building attributes and for demonstrations, but the basic question is fair I think.

 

[arnisador]

Karate styles are very varied. Some have a fair amount of kicks--I believe Wado-ryu is an example--and others very few, like Isshin-ryu or Uechi-ryu. Can you say what styles of karate are available to you?

Northern kung fu is known for its kicks but in my opinion they're often a bit flowery/fancy. Southern kung fu kicks much less as a rule.

TKD is a kicking art and so is a good place to learn how to kick. I've seen both types of TKD schools--weak fancy kicking from sports-schools and "knock you out of your socks" kicks from traditional schools. I agree that if Hapkido is available--and it often is at TKD schools, so check--it will have good kicks that will definitely be powerful.

Without knowing what type of karate you're talking about, I'd have to say go with the TKD.

 

[fissure]

Carbon:

He says that TKD has alot of fancy kicks and he knows all of them, but they lack the ability to generate stopping power

I am just saying what he said, that the fancy kicks that he can do can't generate the type of power he wanted

I would like to know where are you going to use all the jumping kicks they have?

He says.I am just saying what he said. ...all the kicks they have.
arnisador, firstly it gets to me when someone forms oppinions based apon second hand info.
As to jumping kicks - There are jumping versions of the basic kicking tech.Most are never used in sparring.The exception is the jumping back kick.However the kick doesn't send the kicker leaping into the air as most would like to believe.Rather the support leg only comes a few inches off the ground, and the momentum created by the jump/rotation is directed
into the opponent.The impact that can be created when this tech. is used correctly has to be experienced to be understood.

 

[Carbon]

Funny how you quoted what I said, and then in a cowardly manner turn to arnisador for approval of your pet peve?

I'm sorry if you don't like what I say. I'm not forcing you to read it, the reason I asked about what he said was to prove or disprove what he was saying.

Sorry that I wanted to know more information about a style that he used to study.

If you are afraid to be offended maybe you shouldn't experience life.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Guys, keep it friendly huh?

Sometimes all we have to go on is 2nd and 3rd hand info...we come to places like this looking for more direct information from those in the know...sometimes its hard to seperate the BS from the true knowledge...esp. when many think they have the knowledge when its in fact BS. I've seen some 'demonstrations' that literally had me in stitches...they were -that- funny.

This isn't directed at anyone, just a general observation, so please no one take offence from it.

Lots of good info in here, so lets keep it flowing.

Thanks.

 

[sweeper]

ok, judo kid if you don't mind telling us, where do you live?

I tohught you said you lived in the kent valley.. if so bellevue/kirland should be 30 minuets or so, and there is at least one (edit: mauy thai) school in federal way wich would be right over the hill from you.

 

[fissure]

Posted by Arnisador:

I think it's a fair question. TKD has a lot of jumping kicks; why?

The fair question part was in reference to your post Carbon, and my retort to you.Hence my qoute of what you had said and why I had responded in the way I did.
Arnisador was defending you, I reponded.I didn't

turn to arnisador for approval

, he asked me about the context of my post.
If you beleive I'm a coward that fine.Maybe one day you will have the oppertuninty to tell me that to my face.

 

[fissure]

By the way Carbon, the tone of our conversaton was much more enjoyable in the 'Punching' thread.
If you look at the progression of the posts here, I think you will understand the reason I phrased my post to Arnisador the way I did.
I still don't like people making judgements on styles/concepts without having experience in them.It's not that I'm offended, I just feel that if you do this you do yourself a disservice.You close a door without even looking through for yourself.
I don't think I have ever been called a coward before in my life.I guess that the 'beauty' of the internet.

Kaith, I've also seen many humorus demos.Some of the best involved 'bendy, glowing sticks'.
But like you,I'm not directing this at anyone in particular.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fissure

I've also seen many humorus demos.Some of the best involved 'bendy, glowing sticks'.

In what capacity? Like a [musical] forms demo or something?