What should we call this forum?

[Bob Hubbard]

1 - Name the Forum. Some consider the name "American Ninjutsu" to be limiting, improper, or otherwise not the right one. I am creating a multiple choice poll, to run for a week to select a name.

Please look through the available options and pick the ones that you prefer.

This is a MULTIPLE CHOICE poll.

 

[Andrew Green]

"Sneaky Buggers in Black PJ's"

 

[Satt]

Wow, what a hard decision. Kaith, I don't think I could've come up with that many names. The reason I liked the "Mystic Arts, Modern Views" is because it seems pretty general and when the word "Ninjutsu" is used at all, people seem to get bent out of shape. Plus, I like the word "Mystic." It sounds pretty cool.

 

[pakua]

This is a MULTIPLE CHOICE poll.

No it's not.... it's got radio buttons which only allow one choice, not multi-choice check-boxes

 

[Bujingodai]

You will not stop this arguement unless it says something like Ninja wanabe or Ninja Fraud. Honestly you will go around in circles with this one.
The traditionals wanted us out of the Japanese forum, so we are here, now they will come here and complain til we don't have a forum. If it has any word to do with Ninjutsu (which is not a trademark BTW) there will be no peace. I chose the last option.
Kaith personally I'd scrap the AN forum, I like it but it will only serve as a fighting ground

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Then we will define it. Within set parameters, things can be discussed.

If art X calls a "Horse Stance" "Squatting Lotus", then that is its name.
Within the context of X that is the term, and an insistance that it is not by those who do not study that art can be seen as a disruption.

More specifically, if someone from the X-kans steps into a To Shin Do thread on blocking techniques and hijacks it as "not real" "Ineffectual" or most importantly, "not the way a real ninja would do it", then they will most likely be hearing from our staff.

This is the same as if a To Shin Do person were to step into the JMA-Trad forum to "Correct" an X-Kan based on their art.

There will be some "compare and contrast" threads where exceptions can and will most likely be made.


Now, regarding the use of the terms "Ninja", "Ninjutsu" and "NinjItsu", I will admit I agree with the Traditionalists. That said however, there are many definitions. We must also keep in mind that over time, words meanins and usage may change. For example, do we photocopy or do we Xerox? Do we grab a tissue or a Klenex?

Here are some web-defs for Ninja. Most, but not all say "Japanese". We can use both concepts I think. "Ninja" of a wide definition here, and a narrower one in the JMA section.

Definitions of Ninja on the Web:

"Stealer in." Japanese warriors most associated but sadly stereotyped with spying, infiltration and assassination. They became legends in their time, supposedly capable of disappearing into thin air and turning into animals.
www.4martialartssupplies.com/n.htm

"Stealer in." Japanese warriors most associated but sadly stereotyped with spying, infiltration and assassination. They became legends in their time, supposedly capable of disappearing into thin air and turning into animals.
www.usadojo.com/dictionaryn.htm

Stealth. A feudal Japanese group of spies and assassins. (Japanese)
members.tripod.com/hungahungas/glossary.htm

Assassins and spies: practitioners of the Art of Invisibility. Expert in the use of weapons, but also skilled in use of poisons and explosives. Both male and female ninjas existed.
www.geocities.com/shogunafurika/glossary.htm

"Stealer in". Japanese warriors most associated but sadly stereotyped with spying, infiltration and assassination. They became legends in their time, supposedly capable of disappearing into thin air and turning into animals.
martialartsplanet.com/forums/glossary.php

a member of the ninja who were trained in martial arts and hired for espionage or sabotage or assassinations; a person skilled in ninjutsu
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

a class of 14th century Japanese who were trained in martial arts and were hired for espionage and assassinations
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

 

[heretic888]

Technically, Kaith, a literal transliteration of "ninja" would be something like "one who perseveres" or "person of perseverence". The whole assassin angle doesn't have much credence to it either (but, you can take that one up with Mr. Turnbull). Ninja in the 1300's is also kinda.... weird.

Personally, I'm up for "Neo-Ninjutsu" and/or "Mixed/Hybrid Martial Arts".

 

[Enson]

my personal opinion is that x kans and the likes should have no vote as to what another forum is called. this should be decided amongst the an'ers or modern ninjutsu guys. this is a forum for us anyway being that the x kan guys have their home they should not be able to opinionate about something that doesn't pertain to them. that is like trying to get permission on what to name your child because someone else has that name already. sure there are a lot of "Enson"s out there but none can boogey woogey like me! hee hee!

so in short the x kan/or anyone that doesn't make this forum their home, opinion should not matter. its not their child anyway.

peace

 

[sojobow]

My vote was for "other." Personally, I find Neo Ninjitsu acceptable in that Neo refers to the term modern and Ninjitsu technically, doesn't belong to Japan as there is no such word as "Ninjitsu" in Japanese - at least according to what I've read in most forums. I have a post in the locked thread on this subject that further highlight my thought/opinion. Even though Ninjitsu is very close to Ninjutsu, readers will get the point and have a pre-expectation of the contents of the sub section. Just add that the "Traditional Ninjutsu" forum is down below so if they are interested in X-Kans, they will find it below in "Japanese Forums".

My other post mentioned is in "what is American Ninjutsu?"

 

[Don Roley]

my personal opinion is that x kans and the likes should have no vote as to what another forum is called. this should be decided amongst the an'ers or modern ninjutsu guys.

I see where you are coming from. But I don't see that intention in what Kaith wrote. Perhaps he could clarify.

And I feel that until we determine the subject that will be covered in the new forum, it is kind of premature to limit who has a say in the matter. Only American ninjutsu practicioners, or can people like the Ninjukai's Genin Andrew from down under as a "modern" practicioner also chime in? And so on and so forth.

We need to find a term that will cause the least friction among the greatest amount of people- at least that is how I think.

 

[Enson]

I see where you are coming from. But I don't see that intention in what Kaith wrote. Perhaps he could clarify.

And I feel that until we determine the subject that will be covered in the new forum, it is kind of premature to limit who has a say in the matter. Only American ninjutsu practicioners, or can people like the Ninjukai's Genin Andrew from down under as a "modern" practicioner also chime in? And so on and so forth.

We need to find a term that will cause the least friction among the greatest amount of people- at least that is how I think.

good point. i personally don't have a problem with modern ninjutsu. as we all know i was a moderator for that sub forum back in the day.
as far as genin andrew goes... his school claims to do things as done in japan. but... if he wants to hang with the modern guys he can. not a big deal here.

peace

 

[Flatlander]

So I've thought about it some more. "Mystic Arts, Modern Views." I like this because it at the same time neither discludes nor includes anyone. It's very non-specific. The only thing it specifies is a shift in time; be that an adjustment of techniques, a paradigm shift, a change in philosophy, or what have you.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

When this poll closes in a few days, unless there is an overwhelming majority, I'll take the top 3, and do a run-off on them, factoring in any "I changed my minds" etc in the discussion.

For the non-JMA folks worried about a 'florida election', my recomendation would be to vote. There are about 60+ non-TN that I can see in the databases...more than enough to balance the voting out.

 

[Rich Parsons]

my personal opinion is that x kans and the likes should have no vote as to what another forum is called. this should be decided amongst the an'ers or modern ninjutsu guys. this is a forum for us anyway being that the x kan guys have their home they should not be able to opinionate about something that doesn't pertain to them. that is like trying to get permission on what to name your child because someone else has that name already. sure there are a lot of "Enson"s out there but none can boogey woogey like me! hee hee!

so in short the x kan/or anyone that doesn't make this forum their home, opinion should not matter. its not their child anyway.

peace

Enson,

I disagree. If this was a specific art called 'XYZ' then I would agree that the title would be 'XYZ'. If it is a broad band coverage then having people involved give their opinion is the right thing to do, in my humble opinion.

:asian:

 

[Enson]

Enson,

I disagree. If this was a specific art called 'XYZ' then I would agree that the title would be 'XYZ'. If it is a broad band coverage then having people involved give their opinion is the right thing to do, in my humble opinion.

:asian:

the reason i disagree with this being open to the eskrima and wing chun etc. guys voting is they really don't have a say. the same with anyone else outside the "ring of fire". they should be worried about how to better define their forum and get some real dialogue in their section. not losing sleep over what another section would be called. thats my take on things. this vote should be open to an'ers, modern, neo guys.

peace

 

[heretic888]

The problem with that, enson, is that who belongs to this "ring of fire" hasn't been fully decided yet.

 

[Enson]

The problem with that, enson, is that who belongs to this "ring of fire" hasn't been fully decided yet.

well i thought the charter explained it... but since we want to redefine it again... your points are very true.:asian:

peace

 

[sojobow]

When this poll closes in a few days, unless there is an overwhelming majority, I'll take the top 3, and do a run-off on them, factoring in any "I changed my minds" etc in the discussion.

For the non-JMA folks worried about a 'florida election', my recomendation would be to vote. There are about 60+ non-TN that I can see in the databases...more than enough to balance the voting out.

Actually, you aren't too far off here. In most Western Institutions of Higher Learning, they do partition studies as "Eastern Culture" and "Western Culture." There is "Eastern Religion" and "Western Literature etc." Good thought and shows some sophistications that can be built upon. Good job.

 

[Andrew Green]

Can I reccomend something like "ecclectic styles" or "Hybrid Martial Arts"

Words like "ninja", "mystic", "neo", etc are going to draw trolls and stir ****.
No offence to those that practice the art, but a name is what draws people in, unless you want a lot of nuts and trolls, don't use names that they are attracted too.

 

[Enson]

Can I reccomend something like "ecclectic styles" or "Hybrid Martial Arts"

Words like "ninja", "mystic", "neo", etc are going to draw trolls and stir ****.
No offence to those that practice the art, but a name is what draws people in, unless you want a lot of nuts and trolls, don't use names that they are attracted too.

the only problem with this is the schools that are being considered actually teach their form of american ninjutsu or even modern ninjutsu. see the problem?

peace