What not to do with swords

[MA-Caver]

You HAD to post this just before I went out and played Last Samurai didn't you!!! Well I guess I can always still go play Jedi knight with fluorescent light tubes
:jedi1:

Thank you, this is great information and a great post.

Make sure they're filled with gasoline first... there was a vid about morons that did THAT...

While the idea of using swords is romantic and calls up the days of knights and musketeers and samurai's and so forth... They are dangerous weapons in the hands of the inexperienced (never mind how dangerous they are in trained hands) ... Swordlady's tips are sound and sincere and so full of common sense that there's no room for anything else but solid agreement here.
I've seen ads for schools that teach the true art of utilizing the Katana (easily the most popular sword now-a-days) ... the demos were flashy to be sure ... but the back of my mind was reminding me that those guys had practiced for years before getting "that-good" and I'll betcha they got a training scar or three along the way.
If you any doubts (for newcomers) then look at this and imagine that it's a 34-36" blade doing the cuts instead... the officer probably wouldn't be alive... the pics were done with a knife... (from another thread http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31868&highlight=graphic+knife+pictures) GRAPHIC photo warning! Remember this was done with just a knife. http://kukan.active-logic.com/docs/knifeinjury.pdf
If you honestly want to learn... scroll up and click on the links that'll lead you to the right school(s).

Good thread m'lady :asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Make sure they're filled with gasoline first... there was a vid about morons that did THAT...

OOOH COOL... I'm off to Mobil...

While the idea of using swords is romantic and calls up the days of knights and musketeers and samurai's and so forth... They are dangerous weapons in the hands of the inexperienced (never mind how dangerous they are in trained hands) ... Swordlady's tips are sound and sincere and so full of common sense that there's no room for anything else but solid agreement here.
I've seen ads for schools that teach the true art of utilizing the Katana (easily the most popular sword now-a-days) ... the demos were flashy to be sure ... but the back of my mind was reminding me that those guys had practiced for years before getting "that-good" and I'll betcha they got a training scar or three along the way.
If you any doubts (for newcomers) then look at this and imagine that it's a 34-36" blade doing the cuts instead... the officer probably wouldn't be alive... the pics were done with a knife... (from another thread http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31868&highlight=graphic+knife+pictures) GRAPHIC photo warning! Remember this was done with just a knife. http://kukan.active-logic.com/docs/knifeinjury.pdf
If you honestly want to learn... scroll up and click on the links that'll lead you to the right school(s).

Good thread m'lady :asian:

I agree.

And what many who run off to play with swords, with visions of (as you said) "the romantic and calls up the days of knights and musketeers and samurai's" Fail to realize is they were using swords to kill each other, not play slice the melon on the ladder.

 

[trueaspirer]

Great tips. You'd be amazed (or not) to know what people will do for fun.

 

[howard]

More food for thought.

Yesterday I went to a study group that I train with on Saturdays. Before our class they do a Iaido class. During the Iaido class, one of the students (who holds dan rank in Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu and is quite experienced) was doing a kata... apparently his focus wandered, and he sliced his left forearm open pretty badly. Had to be taken to the hospital to get stitched up internally and externally. No word yet on any lasting damage, we all hope that there is none.

To reiterate, this is a serious student, training under a very quailified instructor.

If you're only doing kata, please consider using a dull blade (I do)... if you search around, you can find quaility iaito and their Korean equivalents that mimic a katana in size and weight, and are perfectly acceptable for kata practice. Much better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Swordlady]

Found another stupid katana video. Definitely do NOT do what this guy is doing: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7852479463569512577&q=katana

 

[pstarr]

I can only say, "remarkable."

It's remarkable that he didn't at least lose an ear...

 

[shesulsa]

Found another stupid katana video. Definitely do NOT do what this guy is doing: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7852479463569512577&q=katana

Wow. Just wow.

Shinken are like guns that can't be unloaded and have no safety.

Nicely put.

 

[Xue Sheng]

All that spinning over his head and he never left the ground.

One too many ninja movies me thinks

 

[Cryozombie]

Found another stupid katana video. Definitely do NOT do what this guy is doing: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7852479463569512577&q=katana

I'm gonna play "Devil's Advocate" here for a moment, and remind you guys that there is a difference between a "Sword Stunt" and swordwork.

The kids in the first video with the rollerblades were idiots. Out of Context, you dont know so much with this guy... Reason I bring that up, is I did somthing almost identical to this for a scene in a movie... and performed the stunt with somthing that was unlikley to lop anything off my body if I screwed up. Is his sharp?

I guess what I am saying is, We have training with a sword, so we see things that are "out there" to us, and its easy to jump in and judge them, but without context... we don't know if someone is an idiot and being unsafe, or aware of what they are doing.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm gonna play "Devil's Advocate" here for a moment, and remind you guys that there is a difference between a "Sword Stunt" and swordwork.

The kids in the first video with the rollerblades were idiots. Out of Context, you dont know so much with this guy... Reason I bring that up, is I did somthing almost identical to this for a scene in a movie... and performed the stunt with somthing that was unlikley to lop anything off my body if I screwed up. Is his sharp?

I guess what I am saying is, We have training with a sword, so we see things that are "out there" to us, and its easy to jump in and judge them, but without context... we don't know if someone is an idiot and being unsafe, or aware of what they are doing.

Yes the local troop that does the swash-buckler sword work at the Ren-Fest are not about real blade work but about stage safety and also flash so the blade can be seen.

On the other hand if this video is for true demonstration, my biggest concern are the open fingers during his twirls. This means he either does not have the right flexibility to perform the technique or is not using the proper body mechanics to execute the technique.

Yet, one could say he could not move as intended for the stationary camera. Hence why I really dislike video work unless I know exactly what it was for and trying to accomplish.

 

[Swordlady]

I'm gonna play "Devil's Advocate" here for a moment, and remind you guys that there is a difference between a "Sword Stunt" and swordwork.

The kids in the first video with the rollerblades were idiots. Out of Context, you dont know so much with this guy... Reason I bring that up, is I did somthing almost identical to this for a scene in a movie... and performed the stunt with somthing that was unlikley to lop anything off my body if I screwed up. Is his sharp?

I guess what I am saying is, We have training with a sword, so we see things that are "out there" to us, and its easy to jump in and judge them, but without context... we don't know if someone is an idiot and being unsafe, or aware of what they are doing.

Getting back to you three days later...after looking at the videoclip *again*, I have issue with how he named the video "Sword Training". He also did this little bow before and after his "routine" - as if bowing added a little "credibility" to what he did.

Sure there is plenty of twirly sword stuff in the movies, but it that is not considered *real* sword art training by any stretch.

 

[Swordlady]

I was at the dojo this afternoon for YSKR class. Chris was showing me a technique - and like a stupid idiot, I decided to rush it. I was supposed to push the back of the blade upwards with both hands, but somehow, I pushed the blade's point into the side of my left thumb instead. Fortunately, the blade wasn't that sharp (I think that last month's attempt at tameshigiri dulled it a bit), but it was still sharp enough to poke a small cut into my thumb. I shudder to think what might've happened with a really sharp blade.

Lesson learned: Do NOT rush techniques you're not that familiar with. Especially not with a sharpened blade. I could've very easily sliced off a chunk of my thumb this afternoon if my sword was any sharper.

 

[soul_sword34]

Getting back to you three days later...after looking at the videoclip *again*, I have issue with how he named the video "Sword Training". He also did this little bow before and after his "routine" - as if bowing added a little "credibility" to what he did.

I agree about the last video. He was not well versed. He is obviously too stiff and tense and it was evident he could not breath correctly, probably why he was so tense. This kid was a novice if that.

Sure there is plenty of twirly sword stuff in the movies, but it that is not considered *real* sword art training by any stretch.

Ever hear of Haidong Gumdo? Shimsang Gumbup? I came from a stright Kendo/Iaido background as far as the sword goes, . There's nothing twirly about it except for the whoosh of the sword and Hakama. When I was first introduced to Gumdo by Grandmaster I thought I had been introduced to some secret clan. And I was very delighted to be invited so deep inside. Even in the Dojang though an Iai-to was used.

Personally though I've stabbed myself with an Iai-to right in my left arm. I was doing Noto and drew the sword across the webbing of my thumb when I felt the Kisaki drop into the Koiguchi, well I was young and hurried through my techniqes for more flash. Well I went to sheath really quickly as I dropped equally as fast to my knee and felt the blade tip run up my left forearm 1/8th of an inch to the side of a major artery. Luckily it was not sharp and only left a scratch. Also this one time I was executing Chiburi and wacked the back of my head with the Bokken. I respect a live blade with Chiburi now.
Grand master used to pull a kid from the spectators row and have them hold a piece of paper for me with both thumbs and first fingers. As I cut the paper with his prized $10,000 Katana he had the nervous kid put the two halves together and rotate. Until the paper was a 1/16th its original size, cutting half after half. Try folding a piece of paper 4 times to see how small this target was. Every cut was made from Jodan. I always hated that demonstration. I still don't know why he always had me do that to this day. Anyways if I were a beginner there would be a kid with less fingers out there somewhere.:uhyeah: Moral of my long story. If you train use something dull. You WILL eventually get cut. It's not a matter IF.

 

[Charles Mahan]

Dustin that story about cutting paper out of the hands of a spectator is disturbing to say the least. It smacks of mellon cutting, showmanship at it's worst, and a blatant disregard for the safety of the audience member. It's exactly the sort of thing this thread is trying to warn against.

 

[howard]

Dustin that story about cutting paper out of the hands of a spectator is disturbing to say the least. It smacks of mellon cutting, showmanship at it's worst, and a blatant disregard for the safety of the audience member. It's exactly the sort of thing this thread is trying to warn against.

I'm completely in agreement with Charles.

If your objective is to practice cutting motion and technique, you can do this by cutting newspaper with a wooden sword. If your technique is deficient, the paper will just crumple. If your technique is sound, the wooden sword will cut the paper. Not a nice, razor-straight cut, but a cut nonetheless.

Even when doing this type of practice, we start out with two people holding the paper (one on either side), for safety's sake.

 

[soul_sword34]

I'm completely in agreement with Charles.

If your objective is to practice cutting motion and technique, you can do this by cutting newspaper with a wooden sword. If your technique is deficient, the paper will just crumple. If your technique is sound, the wooden sword will cut the paper. Not a nice, razor-straight cut, but a cut nonetheless.

Even when doing this type of practice, we start out with two people holding the paper (one on either side), for safety's sake.

I agree he was very excentric. One day he started throwing razor sharp shuriken at me. I was suprised to find out that I could slow down time and catch them...meh another time, long story.
Now I ask you just this one thing. Why would a world renowned 8th degree Grand Master, President of the International Haidong Gumdo Association have me cut that paper the way he did? Knowing the risks that were involved? I must have did that demo at least 10 times and never cut anyone. I've cut paper with two people but that was easy because it was 6 foot long try it two inches and see how much you trust yourself. Stupid, yes!!! But those were the old days of training and it was hard:whip: . Believe me I have no desire to do anymore demos like that. It makes me shiver right now thinking about that blade falling and inch to the left/right.irate:

 

[Charles Mahan]

Who is this person you speak of? A name please if you will. I don't know squat about the Korean world of swords. Mentioning his title is not helpful.

As for why people put on stupidly dangerous flashy shows of skill, it's usually an ego thing. It screams "Look at me! Look how wonderful I am! Come! Train at my dojo and give me all your money!" By having a student do it, you make it legally safer for yourself if something were to go wrong, and yet can still take credit as the masterful sensei who trained such a prodigy if something goes right.

To take hapless audience members and put them at risk in this fashion borders on criminal negligence and reckless endagerment on your part.

Why do I get the distinct feeling I'm feeding a troll.

 

[Cryozombie]

Why do I get the distinct feeling I'm feeding a troll.

Im gonna go with the "I can slow down time and catch shuriken" comments...

 

[Swordlady]

I have seen videoclips of high-ranked martial artists doing stupid things with swords - like cutting a melon on a man's stomach. There is this one clip floating around the Net, where a MA instructor accidentally slit his assistant's throat while cutting a cucumber.

Just because a person has a high dan in a MA doesn't automatically mean that he/she knows how to safely handle a sword, or any other weapon.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have seen videoclips of high-ranked martial artists doing stupid things with swords - like cutting a melon on a man's stomach. There is this one clip floating around the Net, where a MA instructor accidentally slit his assistant's throat while cutting a cucumber.

Just because a person has a high dan in a MA doesn't automatically mean that he/she knows how to safely handle a sword, or any other weapon.

Can I have an Amen to that!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com