What not to do with swords

[howard]

Who is this person you speak of? A name please if you will. I don't know squat about the Korean world of swords...

I know a bit about Korean sword arts, because I practice one (which is very heavily influenced by MJER), and I can asssure you that the foolishness being described here is not representative of legitimate Korean sword arts.

Why do I get the distinct feeling I'm feeding a troll.

My bet is the comment about catching flying shuriken...

 

[soul_sword34]

Who is this person you speak of? A name please if you will. I don't know squat about the Korean world of swords. Mentioning his title is not helpful.

As for why people put on stupidly dangerous flashy shows of skill, it's usually an ego thing. It screams "Look at me! Look how wonderful I am! Come! Train at my dojo and give me all your money!" By having a student do it, you make it legally safer for yourself if something were to go wrong, and yet can still take credit as the masterful sensei who trained such a prodigy if something goes right.

To take hapless audience members and put them at risk in this fashion borders on criminal negligence and reckless endagerment on your part.

Why do I get the distinct feeling I'm feeding a troll.

Kwang Jang Nim Kirk I. Koskella formerly a resident of Idaho. President and Founder of the American Song Moo Kwan Association, Co-Manager of the World Song Moo Kwan Association, under the Ro, Hee Sang (Son of Song Moo Kwan's founder). Executive Vice President of Grand Master Bong Soo Han's International Hapkido Federation, General Secretary of the Worldwide Martial Arts Association (Korea), and United states Chairman of the World Haidong Gumdo Federation.

I hope that's enough background.

Okay I should have never mentioned the shuriken thing. Big Huge mistake on my part. If you want the whole story I will respect your wishes, however; it was a lesson mostly on fear and control of your surroundings. Adrenaline + Breathing = sensory perception of slowed time.

I came to these boards with the utmost honesty. I make no supernatural claims or claims of mastery.

 

[soul_sword34]

I know a bit about Korean sword arts, because I practice one (which is very heavily influenced by MJER), and I can asssure you that the foolishness being described here is not representative of legitimate Korean sword arts.


My bet is the comment about catching flying shuriken...

Jung Sin Il Do Ha Sa Bul Sung

Foolishness? Howard, do you practice Tanjun Hohap? Tell me is candle snuffing foolish? Or how about cutting oranges? They do this in Korea not to say, "hey look I'm so cool I can cut through an orange", they cut oranges because hey it's not easy to cut an orange from any Kamae or even a kiwi. Try cutting a ping pong ball in four pieces, I always loved that one. It's good training just as Tameshigiri is good training or paper cutting. Is that the soul of the art or just one of the blossoms? Hardly the soul.

Remember the old days of belt fights (whipping is what I called it) and shinai training? How can you make claims of legitimacy or not? In the old days men died in training, that was before the invention of Kendo. There was actually quite a restructuring when I was teaching because students did not want to train under me because I came from the "old days". Shotokan way. Spirit first technique second, those days. I remember all the instructors having to watch a video tape of the modern changes to the "industry" and of how now there is a gentle way of retaining students and that we must be more sensitive. We all had to take tests and get certified, I can't remember the course now. I called it B.S. but must admit we made more money when changing to the gentle method. But the modern martial arts was starting to lack anything real. Such is the traditional martial arts of today (not all). Safety first is the new way. Then we understood what it is like to get punched in the face with a bare fist or have a shuto across your temple or how about the time sparring full contact and you get an ippon ken to the xiphoid process (goodnight). In the old ways we all understood what techniques could do because everything was real but still with control, I stress the word CONTROL. When you came onto the mat you watched everyone and was aware of everything, fear was constant in those days, Sensei Campbell loved to demonstrate yaka zuki on unsuspecting brown belts. Anyone ever sparred with all the lights out? Try it, it hurts a lot. LOL!!!!!!!!!! In the new age we started wearing sparring equipment.

Foolishness? Remember stories of Miyamoto, Musashi as he was walking up the ranks of soldiers of the Kumamoto clan. Out of hundreds of "warriors" only one did he find worthy. The warrior he chose had absolutely no fear, out of hundreds of better trained Samurai this is the only one who remained with the spirit of Kokoro. When Musashi asked why this student had no fear the student stated, "I hardly train at all", the samurai admitted humbly, "When I go to bed each night, I simply unsheathe my sword and hang it above my face by a slender thread. Then I lie down beneath it and gaze up at its point until I fall asleep." These are old ways. As are catching razor blades flying through the air. They are no longer necessary but can be a good source for the way path.

Okay I'm sorry to the moderators for interupting this thread, I suppose you are used to this kind of thing. I come from old ways and it was dangerous. That was then. A thousand apologies for my nature so back to the subject. Koung Yet!!!!

Today when dealing with live blades safety must come first. Do you feel like it would be okay to lose a hand or an artery? Be careful please and be responsible, mostly respect the weapon, it only takes a touch to slice through a neck or even a torso. Everything YOU do is at YOUR own risk. Myself I prefer the Iai-to and when I use a live blade I understand the risks involved and accept that fate. If I could rewind time to the past I would not have allowed the audience to participate in anything like that. I thank God that no one was ever hurt by me or that no one was ever killed. I just have a distaste for the modern "business" of martial arts training. I have come here with only empty hands and the best regards.

 

[Charles Mahan]

Yeah that's the point. What you do that puts you at risk is your business. Taking a student and putting them at unnecessary risk is bad enough, but taking an audience member and putting the audience member at risk, someone who does not know anything about what's going on and is participating on blind faith alone... That's just plain irresponsible in the extreme, and speaks very poorly of all involved.

I'm sorry to say this, but it just sounds too much like the goofball watermellon-on-belly cutters. A vivesection waiting to happen. Your story stands as a shining example of exactly what NOT to do and what to avoid when looking for somewhere to train.

For those of us less savy on all things KSA, Kwan Jang Nim is apparently a title which is sometimes translated as "Grandmaster".

 

[Swordlady]

Kwang Jang Nim Kirk I. Koskella formerly a resident of Idaho. President and Founder of the American Song Moo Kwan Association, Co-Manager of the World Song Moo Kwan Association, under the Ro, Hee Sang (Son of Song Moo Kwan's founder). Executive Vice President of Grand Master Bong Soo Han's International Hapkido Federation, General Secretary of the Worldwide Martial Arts Association (Korea), and United states Chairman of the World Haidong Gumdo Federation.

I hope that's enough background.

Okay I should have never mentioned the shuriken thing. Big Huge mistake on my part. If you want the whole story I will respect your wishes, however; it was a lesson mostly on fear and control of your surroundings. Adrenaline + Breathing = sensory perception of slowed time.

I came to these boards with the utmost honesty. I make no supernatural claims or claims of mastery.

So...you were serious about your sensei throwing shuriken at you? Not a huge mistake for you to mention it; that was downright STUPID of your sensei. Sorry to be so blunt, but anyone who uses members of the audience to hold a piece of paper while he's cutting it - and throws shuriken at his students - sounds *just* a bit...off. No amount of martial art credentials, titles, and so on, justifies obviously foolish and dangerous behavior.

Personally, I think you need to find another sensei before you or someone else gets injured or killed.

 

[Charles Mahan]

Forgive me Dustin, but when I hear a name that is supposed to be high and mighty in the sword arts world I get curious. Do you have any references that I can check? Anywhere I can read up a little?

Google searches aren't proving very useful. A search of E-budo and Sword Forum turned up squat.

Google turned up the following link http://www.kscourts.org/CA10/cases/2004/12/04-4053.htm The middle initial is correct and this was filed in Utah.

 

[soul_sword34]

So...you were serious about your sensei throwing shuriken at you? Not a huge mistake for you to mention it; that was downright STUPID of your sensei. Sorry to be so blunt, but anyone who uses members of the audience to hold a piece of paper while he's cutting it - and throws shuriken at his students - sounds *just* a bit...off. No amount of martial art credentials, titles, and so on, justifies obviously foolish and dangerous behavior.

Personally, I think you need to find another sensei before you or someone else gets injured or killed.

Agreed. I'd refuse cutting the paper but must admit that catching, razor sharp, shuriken was fun.

The first one I caught very easily, between my palms, we were discussing energy, white lotus societies, inner schools, dark figures standing on Korean mountain tops watching the Song Moo Kwan train, when all of a sudden he threw a moon shaped shuriken. I caught it and thought "wow!!!!". Then he threw another, I caught it. The third one stuck into my hand, as well as the fourth as I rose to my feet, spinning and catching them one by one, fifth shuriken, sixth, seventh shuriken as I dropped each one they kept coming at my heart, he held up two at once and I put up both hands and I can still hear myself, "whoaaahhh!" He asked me, "why are you bleeding?" I replied "because the shuriken stuck into my hands". He asked me "why did the shuriken stick into your hands you seemed to catch the first few". I said because "I was afraid". "Aha!" he said. Koskella said "In the beginning you were clear and relaxed and then the more that came at you, you became tense and clouded with overwhelming thoughts and now you are bleeding". He asked, "are you okay?". I looked at my hands and said, "yes". The shuriken only punctured my palms maybe 1/4 of an inch. I remember the drops of blood falling to the hardwood floor and feeling as if I needed to clean the blood. Koskella then asked me to sit as he tossed me a roll of cotton gauze and tape. I sat in seiza while bandaging my superficial shuriken wounds and listened. He asked me, "what would you do when your enemy overwhelms your mind just like the shuriken?". He spoke of a story about nature that I still don't get to this day it involves a master teacher a student and a "stupid bird". He spoke about how to listen to your surroundings and to feel the rhythym of footsteps. He taught how you can see behind yourself without seeing and how to see with your eyes shut. I must admit I learned a lot from that day. Just to be honest. Stupid? Yeah you could say that but it still is valuable to me now.

 

[soul_sword34]

Forgive me Dustin, but when I hear a name that is supposed to be high and mighty in the sword arts world I get curious. Do you have any references that I can check? Anywhere I can read up a little?

Google searches aren't proving very useful. A search of E-budo and Sword Forum turned up squat.

Google turned up the following link http://www.kscourts.org/CA10/cases/2004/12/04-4053.htm The middle initial is correct and this was filed in Utah.

Mr. Mahan, unfortunately if you type in Kirk I. Koskella you will indeed come up with the above link. And several others. This is the fate of our "Grandmaster". I am deeply ashamed and am now a Ronin. I have just recently in these past two weeks picked up the sword again. I have been in a deep hibernation, alcohol involved, for two years picking up the pieces of my broken heart.

I used Google and came up with the same results. With the Yahoo search engine I found more. Try "kirk koskella song moo kwan" and that should give you a path. A few other names I can give you is Bong Soo Han, Randal Lance and James D. Wohlwend out of Utah. I can furnish more information but my Senior Student Manual is in storage right now. Also try a search for "masters of the martial arts + koskella", that should give you a picture of him with Wesley Snipes, Bong Soo Han and Jhoon Rhee.

 

[soul_sword34]

 

[Swordlady]

Um...who are these people?

You mentioned being in "deep hibernation" with "alcohol involved". Sorry about having to leave your instructor, though I maintain that his practices aren't safe all all. Just make sure that you're not drinking before picking up the sword again.

 

[Charles Mahan]

Ok. This thread has gotten hopelessly offtopic. SwordLady, would you mind splitting the discussion of Sword_Soul's background out of this thread.

 

[howard]

Foolishness?

Yes, Dustin, foolishness.

Cutting oranges and snuffing candles is not the same as having somebody hold paper while another person cuts it with a live blade.

Maybe you didn't hear me the first time, so I'll repeat... foolishness. All of your stories notwithstanding.

 

[howard]

For those of us less savy on all things KSA, Kwan Jang Nim is apparently a title which is sometimes translated as "Grandmaster".

Charles, a kwanjang is simply a person who owns or manages a martial arts school. The "nim" suffix is an honorific, like the last syllable in sahbeomnim (typically translated into English as "master").

There is no Korean equivalent for "Grandmaster". That is a term that seems to have been invented in America. Now we have "Great Grandmasters", "Supreme Grandmasters", "Eternal Grandmasters", "Perpetual Grandmasters", etc... whereas the Koreans themselves are content with kwanjangnim and chongsanim (heads of kwans).

 

[howard]

Um...who are these people?

The gentleman on the left sure looks like Joon Rhee, a famous figure in the introduction of Tae Kwon Do to the US. The gentleman with the white hair may be Bong Soo Han, a well-known Hapkido master who lives in California, if I'm not mistaken. Famous for the "Billy Jack" movies, in which he did the kicking scenes as a double for the protagonist.

Of course, being in the company of such well-respected men does not justify having students cut paper with live blades while another holds it.

If you would like to see some information about a legitimate Korean sword art, please visit www.jungkikwan.com, and have a look at the Kuhapdo section. The chongsa of the kwan, GM Lim Hyun Soo, is a student of Komei Sekiguchi sensei, the 21st headmaster of one of the branches of MJER. You will see photos of those two together on the website.

 

[soul_sword34]

Yes, Dustin, foolishness.

Cutting oranges and snuffing candles is not the same as having somebody hold paper while another person cuts it with a live blade.

Maybe you didn't hear me the first time, so I'll repeat... foolishness. All of your stories notwithstanding.

Why do I get a feeling I'm talking to a troll? Point of this thread people. I'm done with this defense. Don't play with swords they are not toys. I'm going to start a debate thread on sword training and my credibility if anyone would like to join me. Thank you. End.

 

[Swordlady]

Why do I get a feeling I'm talking to a troll? Point of this thread people. I'm done with this defense. Don't play with swords they are not toys. I'm going to start a debate thread on sword training and my credibility if anyone would like to join me. Thank you. End.

How was Howard's post "troll-like"? You were the one who told us stories about your sensei cutting a piece of paper out of a audience member's hands, and throwing shuriken at you. All unsafe practices.

 

[Andrew Green]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Andrew Green
-MT Moderator-