What makes you a "true" martial artist?

[wingchun100]

I've been thinking about this a lot due to the situation I am in. It is something I reflect on often, although I think ultimately everyone has to answer it for themselves.

Over the years, I have been in and out of attendance at my previous Wing Chun school. Some of this was due to laziness on my part. Other times, it was due to my mental state. (I'm not ashamed to admit I suffer from depression, and when my mood was on the down swing, driving to class actually felt like driving to work.) Then for a long time I was in an awful marriage. I WANTED to go to class, but I would face a nightmare when I got home if my ex-wife thought I had spent "too much time" there instead of heading straight home from work to sit next to her on the couch and do nothing.

Eventually, I left that relationship and started going to class again...practically every night. Many years passed, and I moved in with a girlfriend. Due to a sudden tightening of my budget, I was unable to go to class anymore. The Sifu at that school put me on blast on my Facebook profile, posting a public message for all to see where he called me a "fairweather wing chun student." I mean, let me be honest here: I got 4 kids. Feeding them, clothing them, and providing them shelter take precedence over MY wing chun training.

And yet during all those times when I wasn't in class, I kept training my forms...kept practicing my techniques even if it was only in the air...took every chance I could to show anyone who asked me "What's wing chun" to demonstrate for them, because in my opinon one of the best ways to prove you understand the style is to explain it to someone with zero exposure to it. The only thing I wasn't able to do was practice chi sao because obviously that requires at least two people.

Recently I shared my history with some people in a wing chun Facebook group, and someone claiming to be a Sifu (I say this because I have not checked his credentials out) took a swipe at me. All I was trying to do was be open and honest, and he makes the comment that I have no "warrior spirit." (If you ask me, I have more than some people because I kept on practicing even when I wasn't going to class. Hell, I know people who were in my class who were amazed that I practiced my forms several times at home because THEY didn't even do them once a day!)

Anyway, I've been dwelling on those two statements: "fairweather wing chun student" and "you have no warrior spirit," probably more than I should be. But it got me thinking that it would make good subject matter for a post here.

So what do you think? What makes someone a "true" martial artist with REAL "warrior spirit?" Can such a thing be judged on class attendance alone?

I'd like to know your thoughts. I don't know why those comments got under my skin. I know I shouldn't let them, but sometimes negativity finds its way into your soul, and it isn't that easy to kick it back out.

 

[Flying Crane]

First, I hope you are no longer with that sifu.

Yes, you are dwelling on those comments too much. I don't say that as criticism. I say it as word of advice.

Some people think they have some kind of ownership over what it means to train in martial arts. They do not.

There is no definition to what it means to be a true martial artist. It's meaning can be vastly different from one person to the next. I wouldn't even try to define it.

 

[wingchun100]

First, I hope you are no longer with that sifu.

Yes, you are dwelling on those comments too much. I don't say that as criticism. I say it as word of advice.

Some people think they have some kind of ownership over what it means to train in martial arts. They do not.

There is no definition to what it means to be a true martial artist. It's meaning can be vastly different from one person to the next. I wouldn't even try to define it.

THANK YOU for that first comment. When I tell people that I split from him, they say, "Gee, I wonder what his side was." Here's his side: he runs a small school, where every penny he earns counts. He wasn't getting MY pennies anymore, and that loss of income upset him. Then one Sunday morning on Facebook, I wrote something about how I had just posted the lateste episode of my podcast. His response was to say how my attendance in class went up and down, yet I had time to indulge in all these other interests. (SIDE NOTE: My podcast cost me nothing. Was his class free? Absolutely not. Can we see why I might be able to engage in recording my podcast, but NOT attending his class?)

Of course, the catch there is he had lost my tuition fee only temporarily, until he insulted me like that. Now he has lost it for good. Since then I have moved on to train under a Sifu who is completely understanding of the curveballs life can throw you.

 

[wingchun100]

And you are right to point out I am dwelling on them too much. That is something that stems from low self-esteem: needing validation of others. It is a problem with which I still struggle, although I must say my self-esteem is not as low as it once was. I'm getting there. Much like my wing chun, it is something that needs to be worked on and refined.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Honestly it's attitudes like that that puts me off traditional martial arts as I have heard similar things. All that warrior spirit it's bs if you want to train one night you train if you don't you don't this isn't 15th century China where everything revolves around training. Those instructors seem very arrogant and up themselves to me there's no such thing as a true martial artist there's no code or creed or anything you have to follow you do what you want to do if you want a night off take it off if you want to train at another school for a week then train there it's your life you do what you want when you want. When I missed a session when I did karate you always felt worried about what they'd say and If i said I had personal issues they'd demand to know what they are. Now if I miss a kickboxing session no one even mentions it.

 

[wingchun100]

Honestly it's attitudes like that that puts me off traditional martial arts as I have heard similar things. All that warrior spirit it's bs if you want to train one night you train if you don't you don't this isn't 15th century China where everything revolves around training. Those instructors seem very arrogant and up themselves to me there's no such thing as a true martial artist there's no code or creed or anything you have to follow you do what you want to do if you want a night off take it off if you want to train at another school for a week then train there it's your life you do what you want when you want. When I missed a session when I did karate you always felt worried about what they'd say and If i said I had personal issues they'd demand to know what they are. Now if I miss a kickboxing session no one even mentions it.

Well, like I said, my previous Sifu was like that. The current one is not. So you definitely don't find that attitude in ALL traditional places.

 

[drop bear]

There are two competing and equally valid ideas that relate to martial arts.

That at some point we have to engage in our real lives.

And to get any good we have to engage in the grind of training.

So it becomes a choice as to where you want to be as to what advice you need at the time.

For example our fighters don't take days off, don't have sleep ins, and don't eat pizza. But at the end of their training someone is intending on beating them unconscious in front of their friends and family.

Me i don't fight because I like pizza and sleep ins.

 

[Buka]

I have been blessed in my life (and I don't use the word "blessed" often) to have trained under some of the greatest Martial Artists the world has known. Not one of them would have made the comments you mentioned by those "sifus". Not to spare feelings, not because it's impolite, but because it's something that only as asshat would do. I know a lot of great martial arts instructors from a whole lot of different style and backgrounds - none of them would have made those comments either, not even if they didn't like the person.

I've been doing this for a long time, to me, what you have there is a perfect example of what a "true martial artist" is NOT, and never will be. You just keep rocking, bro. As for the whole depression thing, there's lots of us, good thing it's a God damn big boat.

I just bought a book about Warriors. Maybe I'll let them read it when I'm done.....nah, F em', they wouldn't understand it. It's about Martial arts.

 

[Flying Crane]

THANK YOU for that first comment. When I tell people that I split from him, they say, "Gee, I wonder what his side was." Here's his side: he runs a small school, where every penny he earns counts. He wasn't getting MY pennies anymore, and that loss of income upset him. Then one Sunday morning on Facebook, I wrote something about how I had just posted the lateste episode of my podcast. His response was to say how my attendance in class went up and down, yet I had time to indulge in all these other interests. (SIDE NOTE: My podcast cost me nothing. Was his class free? Absolutely not. Can we see why I might be able to engage in recording my podcast, but NOT attending his class?)

Of course, the catch there is he had lost my tuition fee only temporarily, until he insulted me like that. Now he has lost it for good. Since then I have moved on to train under a Sifu who is completely understanding of the curveballs life can throw you.

It's just inappropriate to specifically call someone out in a very public forum like that, where family and friends and everyone else who are remotely linked thru a friend of a friend of a friend, but who have no actual connection to the issue itself, can see it.

If he wanted to comment to you about it, he should have done so privately. It's just common decency. And that doesn't mean his comment would be right, but it's a better way to have the discussion.

 

[Flying Crane]

And you are right to point out I am dwelling on them too much. That is something that stems from low self-esteem: needing validation of others. It is a problem with which I still struggle, although I must say my self-esteem is not as low as it once was. I'm getting there. Much like my wing chun, it is something that needs to be worked on and refined.

I consider myself a work-in-progress too. Some days are better than others.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Well, like I said, my previous Sifu was like that. The current one is not. So you definitely don't find that attitude in ALL traditional places.

I know they're not all like that and a large majority wouldn't do that but sadly me personally I have seen it a few times myself so even though I know it's not all like that that's still my first thought when it comes to traditional styles even though its a wrong thought I can't help it

 

[Ironbear24]

Honestly it's attitudes like that that puts me off traditional martial arts as I have heard similar things.

This has nothing to do with traditional martial arts, you can find the very same thing in modern martial arts as more than often the coach will say "I guess (insert name) is too much of a pussy to come to class." This attitude can exist in both outlets and is more of a problem with the sifu/sensei or coach than it is the classification of art.

 

[Ironbear24]

(I'm not ashamed to admit I suffer from depression,

I myself have severe clinical depression, training helps me a lot and makes me happier but that is of course not always the case. In the end my medication and talking to the right people helps out a lot. I would be much worse off though if it were not for martial arts.

 

[Flatfish]

As someone who came back to MA after a long hiatus and came back with "life" going on I have to call BS. How many folks truly have the luxury to indulge in the time commitment that a "warrior life" would take? I love my training and will keep at it as long as my body will allow me to do so but raising my kids will alway come first and anyone telling me different will be considered a giant fool. And yes I do consider myself a martial artist. I have no illusions about how good I might be or going to be at age 46, but I take it seriously, train outside of class and generally care a great deal about it. If someone does not accept that that's fine, my Give-A-Crap broke a long time ago..

 

[marques]

Are you asking what is true and what is real? Did you see the news? The universe is a matrix... or a video game... So... the real is not for us.

More seriously, a different instructor would say anything else for the same situation. Don't bother with that... Manage your family and your training as well as you can and that's all.
(Yep, it is simple because it is not my problem. Anyway It looks like he doesn't deserve as much credit as you give to him.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Honestly it's attitudes like that that puts me off traditional martial arts as I have heard similar things. All that warrior spirit it's bs if you want to train one night you train if you don't you don't this isn't 15th century China where everything revolves around training. Those instructors seem very arrogant and up themselves to me there's no such thing as a true martial artist there's no code or creed or anything you have to follow you do what you want to do if you want a night off take it off if you want to train at another school for a week then train there it's your life you do what you want when you want. When I missed a session when I did karate you always felt worried about what they'd say and If i said I had personal issues they'd demand to know what they are. Now if I miss a kickboxing session no one even mentions it.

I think this goes to the concept of picking the right school/program. If you want a program that doesn't have any focus beyond the combat/sport skill, then go to a school that doesn't have one. My program has a secondary purpose of helping people improve their ability to function in all areas of life, so there are expectations beyond just physical skill. If someone said they weren't interested in that, I'd suggest they visit schools until they find one that has the right mix for them. I'm not much of a stickler for people always being in class, though that was a big thing early in my training.

That said, I believe there's room for "warrior spirit" to be defined in a way that meets the learning needs of any given program. I've been known to use the term, but only to express how perseverance translates from the dojo to life, and never as a way to put someone down.

Like most instructors, I am disappointed when a student quits (assuming they were a decent student). It removes something from the school, takes a training partner from the other students, and removes an opportunity for me to help someone. That said, if someone needs to make that choice for whatever reason, I do what I can to support their need, rather than my own. I don't think that's what the sifu in the OP was doing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know they're not all like that and a large majority wouldn't do that but sadly me personally I have seen it a few times myself so even though I know it's not all like that that's still my first thought when it comes to traditional styles even though its a wrong thought I can't help it

We all struggle with our own biases. Knowing we have them is one of the best tools for keeping them from becoming a problem.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I myself have severe clinical depression, training helps me a lot and makes me happier but that is of course not always the case. In the end my medication and talking to the right people helps out a lot. I would be much worse off though if it were not for martial arts.

I can remember days when it took everything I had to go to the dojo. I nearly always felt better afterward, but that never made it easier to go the next time the darkness showed up. And sometimes the darkness won for the evening.

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

I've been thinking about this a lot due to the situation I am in. It is something I reflect on often, although I think ultimately everyone has to answer it for themselves.

Over the years, I have been in and out of attendance at my previous Wing Chun school. Some of this was due to laziness on my part. Other times, it was due to my mental state. (I'm not ashamed to admit I suffer from depression, and when my mood was on the down swing, driving to class actually felt like driving to work.) Then for a long time I was in an awful marriage. I WANTED to go to class, but I would face a nightmare when I got home if my ex-wife thought I had spent "too much time" there instead of heading straight home from work to sit next to her on the couch and do nothing.

Eventually, I left that relationship and started going to class again...practically every night. Many years passed, and I moved in with a girlfriend. Due to a sudden tightening of my budget, I was unable to go to class anymore. The Sifu at that school put me on blast on my Facebook profile, posting a public message for all to see where he called me a "fairweather wing chun student." I mean, let me be honest here: I got 4 kids. Feeding them, clothing them, and providing them shelter take precedence over MY wing chun training.

And yet during all those times when I wasn't in class, I kept training my forms...kept practicing my techniques even if it was only in the air...took every chance I could to show anyone who asked me "What's wing chun" to demonstrate for them, because in my opinon one of the best ways to prove you understand the style is to explain it to someone with zero exposure to it. The only thing I wasn't able to do was practice chi sao because obviously that requires at least two people.

Recently I shared my history with some people in a wing chun Facebook group, and someone claiming to be a Sifu (I say this because I have not checked his credentials out) took a swipe at me. All I was trying to do was be open and honest, and he makes the comment that I have no "warrior spirit." (If you ask me, I have more than some people because I kept on practicing even when I wasn't going to class. Hell, I know people who were in my class who were amazed that I practiced my forms several times at home because THEY didn't even do them once a day!)

Anyway, I've been dwelling on those two statements: "fairweather wing chun student" and "you have no warrior spirit," probably more than I should be. But it got me thinking that it would make good subject matter for a post here.

So what do you think? What makes someone a "true" martial artist with REAL "warrior spirit?" Can such a thing be judged on class attendance alone?

I'd like to know your thoughts. I don't know why those comments got under my skin. I know I shouldn't let them, but sometimes negativity finds its way into your soul, and it isn't that easy to kick it back out.

You taking those comments too seriously indicates you love your art. Hundred mouths says hundred things and only you know what you are going through, if you judge yourself based on other's understanding you won't own your own life.

 

[wingchun100]

Thanks for the love and support in these comments, friends. To be honest, when I hit "Create thread" I got scared because I was really opening up and being vulnerable. I thought, "Man...odds are I might find another person or two who mocks me for 'whining' and not having 'warrior spirit.'" But I went ahead and posted it anyway, and my bravery paid off.

Thank you all.