What kamae you like

[blackswordshinobi]

ench ninjutsu have there own kamae but all look the same but i do all 12 kamae but school add or sudtracked some kamae !

 

[blackswordshinobi]

dont read the attachment im doing scan this not my failt some how i been traked some thing or cookie that tracking movent to site ill bet the phil elmore doing grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

 

[The Last Legionary]

Right. Because Phil Elmore is a L33t Haxor Dude with nothing better to do than give your computer a case of the pox.

 

[Tez3]

and the prize goes to this thread for the most bewildering thread yet!!

 

[The Last Legionary]

Can we just give Billy his own forum?

 

[blackswordshinobi]

look at under line thing i been notices less a monther some work i print end up stupit attachment thread like school if dont see it i do in blue under line

 

[blackswordshinobi]

1 shizen tai no kamae
2 hira ichimonji no kame
3 ichimonji no kame medle
4 gedam ichimonji no kamae low
5 jodam ichimonji no kamae high
6 togakure ryu icho no kamae
7 dokko no kamae
8 hicho no kamae fly bird
9 hokko no kamae
10 kosai no kamae
11 jumonji no kamae X
12 fudoza no kamae sitting kamae this what ment by 12 kamae i can say all my fav but other have might just have one fav sorry went of topic

 

[jks9199]

Right. Because Phil Elmore is a L33t Haxor Dude with nothing better to do than give your computer a case of the pox.

Well, we do know that Phil isn't posting around these parts anymore... Maybe he really doesn't have anything better to do?

 

[blackswordshinobi]

if what know he doing bad mother ninjutsu weapon and all i he really have nothing to do but being whine sob truely

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, 1 - Phil doesn't post here anymore, hasn't in quite a few years. So I think we can do without slamming the guy.

2- I don't see any attachments. To be blunt Billy, you can't post attachments here due to permissions in our software. So if you're seeing them in your posts, it's something on your end.

 

[The Last Legionary]

I can post attachments.

Billy, you should go here and share your experiences with Phil.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=45957&page=1

 

[Chris Parker]

If I may translate....

I believe the question is either which of the various Ninjutsu kamae (postures) do the practitioners of the arts prefer personally, or it's how many do you use?

Then Billy states that there are 12 kamae (which is not correct), as well as stating that they all look the same (again, not really correct), with some arts adding or subtracting a few. He provides the following list:

1 shizen tai no kamae

Also called Shizen no Kamae (TCJRNM), Hira no Kamae (most of the Ryu), known as Shizentai (without the "no kamae") in TYR and SFR.

2 hira ichimonji no kame

Present in a number of Ryu, with different forms for Koto Ryu, and slight differences for other systems.

3 ichimonji no kame medle

"Middle", I'd assume based on the next two...

4 gedam ichimonji no kamae low
5 jodam ichimonji no kamae high

Realistically, these are just variations on the single kamae, not three different ones. While the first one Billy listed was referred to as "middle", here he's using Jodan (high level) and Gedan (low level).

6 togakure ryu icho no kamae

Togakure Ryu's Ichi no Kamae. A number of other kamae here as ryu-specific, so I'm not sure why this one is separated that way...

7 dokko no kamae

Both Togakure Ryu and Gyokko Ryu have a kamae referred to as Doko no Kamae, and, while there are certain similarities, they are noticably different.

8 hicho no kamae fly bird

Gyokko Ryu's single-leg kamae. Kukishinden Ryu then has Katate Hicho no Kamae as well, and there is a "Hicho" form of Hira Ichimonji in Koto Ryu.

9 hokko no kamae

Specific to Koto Ryu.

10 kosai no kamae

Kosei no Kamae is specific to Kukishinden Ryu, and there really isn't any other kamae that looks terribly much like it in the other Ryu.

11 jumonji no kamae X

Again, specific to Gyokko Ryu. The X is there because that's what "Jumonji" means (after a fashion, at least).

12 fudoza no kamae sitting kamae

Found in some forms for TYR, but mainly known from SFR... who refer to it simply as "Za Kamae"

Missing from this list is Tenchi Inyo no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu), Hannin no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu), Gassho no Kamae (Gyokko/Koto Ryu), Shoshin no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu), Seigan no Kamae (Koto Ryu), Bobi no Kamae (Koto Ryu), Seigan no Kamae (Kukishinden Ryu), Katate Hicho no Kamae (Kukishinden Ryu), Seigan no Kamae (Shinden Fudo Ryu Jutaijutsu), Katate Seigan no Kamae (Shinden Fudo Ryu Jutaijutsu), Katate Seigan no Kamae (Takagi Yoshin Ryu), Seiza no Kamae (Reiho), Kiza no Kamae (Takagi Yoshin Ryu), Happogakure no Kamae (Togakure Ryu), Hachimonji no Kamae (Togakure Ryu), Tonso no Kamae (Togakure Ryu), and numerous other incidental kamae, or kamae associated with action, such as Nage no Kamae and Nage Uchi no Kamae... so a few more than 12.

The Ten Chi Jin Ryaku no Maki lists 9 primary kamae, which are:
- Fudoza (SFR Jutaijutsu/TYR)
- Shizen no Kamae (SFR/TYR)
- Hira Ichimonji no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu)
- Ichimonji no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu)
- Doko no Kamae (Togakure Ryu)
- Hicho no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu)
- Hoko no Kamae (Koto Ryu)
- Kosei no Kamae (Kukishinden Ryu)
-Jumonji no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu)

As you can see, this is basically Billy's list without the variations of Ichimonji, or Togakure Ryu's Ichi no Kamae included.

this what ment by 12 kamae i can say all my fav but other have might just have one fav sorry went of topic

Here's the thing, though, Billy. You can't have a favourite. It doesn't work that way. If you have a favourite, you'll always try to be in that kamae... but it might not be right one for the attack. You let the situation dictate which kamae you'll use, not because it's a favourite of yours. So I'd advise not having favourites, but look at what each kamae is for, and learn to use them properly. But for that, you need a real teacher, not a home study course.

 

[blackswordshinobi]

truthly i am not try dis you'll where do you'll work becaues all iam hear or reading is critzium i think i have you'll beat in training becaues seem to that you'll really trying to press my buttion and try get me angery iam not into cycle of hate im not into it ok/ im say clearly writeing clearly
1 shizen tai no kamae nartle postuer
2 hira ichimonji no kame flat
3 ichimonji no kame medle
4 gedam ichimonji no kamae low
5 jodam ichimonji no kamae high
6 togakure ryu icho no kamae steaight
7 dokko no kamae angry tiger
8 hicho no kamae fly bird
9 hokko no kamae craeting primter
10 kosai no kamae go farword or attacking
11 jumonji no kamae X
12 fudoza no kamae sitting kamae medtasion stoll

are you'll real dis stephen k hayes teaching this why keep writing simple

 

[Bester]

This is a Traditional Japanese Ninjutsu area. If you want to discuss Hayes teachings, there is a place here for that.
This isn't it. Mr. Parker has corrected your misunderstanding of kamae. Be a good student and say "thank you sir".

 

[Aiki Lee]

To try and salvage what looks like a thread that's crashing and burning, I will pose a question to those more knoweldgeable on the specific ryu ha than me (i.e. Chris).

What are the reasonings in your experience as to why the different schools would have their postures the particular ways they do it? To put it more clearly, why is something like Koto ryu's ichimonji different tahn say Gyokko ryu's version of it. Strategically speaking, why express the kamae in those different ways?

I hope I make sense.

 

[Chris Parker]

Yeah, you make sense... unfortunately, the best, most complete answer I can give is "because it's Koto Ryu".

Of course, I would be remiss not to point out that I haven't come across a kamae called "Ichimonji" in Koto Ryu... the Kurai Dori (position taking) in Koto Ryu is made up of five kamae; Hidari Seigan, Migi Seigan, Hoko, Bobi, and Hira Ichimonji. There are, as always, extraneous kamae, but I haven't come across an Ichimonji, mainly as Seigan takes the same role. There is an Ichimonji in Togakure, as well as Gyokko, though... and Koto Ryu's Hira Ichimonji is sometimes done rather differently to other forms of Hira Ichimonji (namely that one leg is raised, with your foot near your support leg's knee, and your knee pointing out to the side, making it a Hicho form... but with very different reason than Hicho from Gyokko Ryu).

But the thing to remember when you're exploring kamae is that they are physical expressions of tactics that express the approach of the Ryu itself, so they are never arbitrary in their design.

 

[blackswordshinobi]

bujinkan use Ichimonji no kamae as ther frist but Seigan is crect eye in sword training hiar is fat but i see you wasnt dis but is are physical expressions that i do every day

 

[The Last Legionary]

bujinkan use Ichimonji no kamae as ther frist but Seigan is crect eye in sword training hiar is fat but i see you wasnt dis but is are physical expressions that i do every day

Qwah??? Arroo?

 

[Aiki Lee]

bujinkan use Ichimonji no kamae as ther frist but Seigan is crect eye in sword training hiar is fat but i see you wasnt dis but is are physical expressions that i do every day

Let's see if I can translate:

"The bujinkan uses ichimonji no kamae as their first" Do you mean its the first kamae taught? That would make sense as usually the ninpo kihon happo are taught early on and quite a few of them begin in ichimonji.

"But seigan is correct eye in swords training" ...ok? It's "correct eye" no matter what 'cause that's what the word means. Are you reffering to Chris mentioning Seigan no kamae in koto ryu? Did you not know it is also an unarmed kamae, or a kamae with staff weapons?

"Hiar is fat but i see you wasnt dis but is are physical expressions that i do every day" This statement makes no sense. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[The Last Legionary]

This statement makes no sense. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

About it. I get the feeling with all the threads he's started that he's trying to show us how much of an expert ninja he is. Failing badly, given the poor communications skills and failings in actual knowledge.