New DvD

[Cryozombie]

I just ordered a DvD from Bujingear entitled "Bujinkan Essentials Volume 1"... Their description of the disk is as follows:

“The Pittsburgh Bujinkan Dojo announces the second release of a new DVD Series called The Living Densho. This DVD focuses on the roots and cores of the Bujinkan. This material focuses on the foundations - Kamaes, the 16 Secret Fists, The Sanshin, The Kihon Happo, and as a bonus - Hanbo, Bo and Sword Kamaes! This is a must for anyone who recognizes the importance of the roots of our system.”

It sounded like good reference on the Basics, so I took a chance. I was wondering however, has anyone seen this Video, and do they have any opinion on it?

 

[MisterMike]

I don't know, but I'm going to look at the video samples here:

http://www.pittsburghbujinkan.com/pbd_103.htm

 

[tshadowchaser]

Give us a review after you have had a chance to view the DVD

 

[Cryozombie]

I don't know, but I'm going to look at the video samples here:

http://www.pittsburghbujinkan.com/pbd_103.htm

Ah! Great link, Thanks!

 

[Dale Seago]

I've heard Hatsumi sensei comment that a true martial art doesn't have to fundamentally change just because technology changes -- it simply incorporates the new into the overall knowledge base in a way that will enable the practitioner to make the most effective use of it. I agree with that, with the further caveat that the practitioner first needs to really understand the technology/weaponry being used.

I do a lot of shooting, some of it pretty "high speed/low drag" tactical stuff, in connection with the ongoing training necessary for my work with The Steele Foundation. I just looked at the first two handgun disarming clips at the site -- and that's all I've looked at -- and my advice is to approach at least these portions with extreme caution. They're recipes for disaster.

 

[rutherford]

Dale, is their approach significantly different from Hatsumi's? I haven't had a chance to read (or even see) a copy of his Knife and Pistol Fighting book and I've never had the honor of training with him, so I wouldn't know the difference.

Technopunk, I am really interested in your review of their DVD. I've been looking for a good source to provide guidance on the basics. I've been considering Richard Van Donk's home study course as a supplement to my regular training.

Edit - Different forum version than I'm used too. Had to edit the bold tags a bit.

Edit 2 - Hmm. Line feeds seem a little odd too. Sucks when you edit a post to fix your edit tag.

 

[Cryozombie]

Rutherford, Welcome to Martial Talk.

I will certainly review the DVD when It arrives... It was significantly cheaper than the Von Donk videos... so we'll see what its like when It comes.

 

[rutherford]

Rutherford, Welcome to Martial Talk.

I will certainly review the DVD when It arrives... It was significantly cheaper than the Von Donk videos... so we'll see what its like when It comes.

Thank you. This feels like a good place.

My folks live close to Pittsburgh, but I haven't been back for some years since my kids are still a bit young for the long travel. Otherwise I'd be happy to visit the source and give you my thoughts.

 

[MisterMike]

Yea, the gun clips looks a little sketchy, catching the wielding arm in your elbow, to me, still leaves them a bit of flexibility in their wrist to just turn in on you again.

Oh yea, I did like the sweep in the Tai Jutsu clip.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I agree with Dale.
I've seen Ed Martin perform all of those knife disarms before. A bit too much focus on going after the wrist of the knife hand, IMHO.
I'd be more interested in seeing counters against "Oz" style shankings than Psycho stabs or hostage situations from 50's comic books...

 

[Dale Seago]

Dale, is their approach significantly different from Hatsumi's? I haven't had a chance to read (or even see) a copy of his Knife and Pistol Fighting book and I've never had the honor of training with him, so I wouldn't know the difference. [/i]

Hatsumi sensei's approach would be to do things in a way less likely to get him injured or killed.

The instructor's movement is all right, but he has a tendency to treat the pistol as though it's a knife or other edged weapon; and what will work safely for a knife -- though broadly similar -- may not work quite the same way with the pistol. If you do a lot of shooting, especially from a tactical standpoint such as for law enforcement, the military, or protective services (I've got two out of three there) the potential vulnerabilities are obvious and your taijutsu will adjust accordingly.

The instructor's approach looks more "academic/theoretical" than experiential. I look at it (not just this stuff, but everything in our budo) from the standpoint of a professional, where my -- or a protected client's -- life may be at issue. Hence what may look at first like a negative overreaction to what may well be, overall, a pretty good video series.

 

[Cryozombie]

Hatsumi sensei's approach would be to do things in a way less likely to get him injured or killed.

The instructor's movement is all right, but he has a tendency to treat the pistol as though it's a knife or other edged weapon; and what will work safely for a knife -- though broadly similar -- may not work quite the same way with the pistol.

Dale, I noticed in those clips there was little control of the gun... the gun arm, yes... but not the firearm itself.

 

[davidg553]

Technopunk, I am really interested in your review of their DVD. I've been looking for a good source to provide guidance on the basics.

Watching their online videos should be all the review that you need. For more of their videos (and others) use the Yahoo Video Search.

 

[rutherford]

Hatsumi sensei's approach would be to do things in a way less likely to get him injured or killed.

Yes, I gathered that. It still made me smile to read it.

I've been following your posts for a while, read through your posting history, and I knew that you'd specifically mentioned seminars you'd given in gun disarming & retention.

I suppose I should have asked you what you would do differently, but it was really just an interest. I have no illusions about how I would react if a gun was involved. Been there, thankfully I lived and no shots were fired.

For training purposes, I have a long, long time to go before it becomes part of my testing requirements.

 

[rutherford]

Watching their online videos should be all the review that you need. For more of their videos (and others) use the Yahoo Video Search.

Sorry. I don't trust myself to be the sole judge, and typically I post from a 24kbps connection.

I also just like hearing the opinions of others, especially those I respect - even if I'm often stubborn enough to do something entirely different.


Edit - I noticed that you're a New Englander. I hope that I have the honor to train with you some day.

 

[Dale Seago]

I suppose I should have asked you what you would do differently, but it was really just an interest.

I'm not a believer in "fixed" techniques: In application of our Budo there are a gazillion ways to do something right. So I don't approach it from the standpoint of, "He should have done X instead of whatever it was he did".

However, it's easy to identify some problems with those first two disarming clips.

Handgun disarming and retention, from my perpective as a Booj practitioner, are fundamentally akin to muto dori and daisho sabaki work. The significant difference is that, instead of having to concern yourself with positioning vis-a-vis edges and points, you have to think instead of your relationship to line of fire from the muzzle and consider such things as:

-- muzzle blast;

-- recoil effects such as being cut by a cycling slide (minor issue) or having the weapon "jump" a few inches and slam into your head or face (potentially big issue);

-- being burned by the explosive discharge of hot gases from the barrel/cylinder gap of a revolver;

-- and so on.

With firearms, you also have to take into consideration who or what else may be in line with the muzzle for a considerable distance out, as that will (or should) influence the technique as well.

As an example of that last bit, an amusing thing I did in the last such seminar I taught (November 21st), I emphasized not getting hung up on the specific form of a technique by staging a scenario where you're walking along with a companion who's 3 or 4 feet to one side of you, and someone jumps out in front of you both and attacks you with a katana -- obviously a clear and present danger on every modern American street, right?

I did a technically perfect muto dori technique very close in movement and concept to a handgun disarming technique we'd just been working on and disarmed the swordsman -- neatly slicing through my companion's neck in the process. Oops. (Told him not to worry, I'd pay for the funeral.) It got the point across: With a firearm, your companion could be much further away and still be endangered by your "rote" performance of technique.

Now, looking specifically at those first two disarming clips:

In the first one, the instructor shows several variations on the basic concept, which is commendable as far as that goes. However, on the first couple he positions himself in such a way that, as he moves, if the firearm discharged he could get whacked in the face due to the weapon "bouncing" under recoil, which could allow the gunman to regain the advantage. In the last one he actually allows the muzzle to sweep across the upper part of his head as he executes the technique, which could result in a DRT effect ("Dead Right There").

In the second clip the instructor risks being nailed in the head or face by the recoiling weapon, and additionally positions himself such that he could be blinded and deafened by the muzzle blast. Still better than being shot right away, but I really can't recommend this as it could create a condition the attacker could exploit to break free and then shoot him.

 

[Dale Seago]

I just looked at the 3rd & 4th clips: I feel a lot more "warm & fuzzy" about those.

There are some subtleties about how to enter from that situation without drawing the opponent's attention and provoking an adverse reaction, and the instructor obviously grasps at least part of that (perhaps he explains more elsewhere in the video).

Both show a strong Gyokko ryu influence on the approach.

In the 3rd one I'm not fond of the way he takes the firearm from underneath, palm up, but that's just me. There's less change and extra movement/manipulation involved if you leave the hands in essentially the same position they're already in when you raise them, using the right palm to "push" against the pistol and use it more effectively as a lever. This also immediately changes the angle of the opponent's wrist and makes it difficult, if not impossible, for him to exert enough pressure with his trigger finger to discharge the weapon either deliberately or accidentally. (Try it sometime, you'll see what I mean.) In my book "less movement which accomplishes more" is always a good thing.

The 4th one is "busier" than I like. The way he moves in to reach over the firearm to do what amounts to ura gyaku positions him in such a way that an opponent who is not "fixated" on the weapon could move in and choke him or any number of other things (statistically unlikely, but I like to do things in ways that account for the worst possible case). There would be less movement and better positioning, in the case of moving in on that side, if he just draped the fingers of his right hand over the wrist (without moving in so deeply) with his left palm against the firearm and just turned his body a wee bit to create a direct lock against the wrist, dropping the guy face-down along his forward "weak line of balance". Doing it that way also -- once again -- immediately affects the wrist and the tendons of the fingers in such a way that the gunman can't get proper pressure on the trigger to discharge the weapon. If the trigger finger also happens to already be inside the trigger guard, this movement will also break that finger.

Overall, though, these two aren't bad.

 

[rutherford]

Thank you, Dale. :asian:

 

[Cryozombie]

I got the DVD, watched it last night.

Ok. What do I think.

1) The Production Quality was nice. The video was crisp, and clear. The audio sounded good, it was not "Tinney" like many other videos I have seen.

2) This DVD does cover the basics. It shows the Kihon Happo, Kame, Sanshin No Kata, Ukemi basics, etc.

That said, I found the DVD a bit dry and, at some points a touch comical. (such as when they demonstrated Head Strikes with no target, he looked like he had MadCow disease or somthing. I couldnt help but snicker) The Format was basically like this:

Guy standing on screen. A voice speaks "BLAH BLAH" indicating the technique, and then the guy demonstrates it. It then moves to the next technique.

No explaination, no teaching, Just "BLAH BLAH" and someone doing the technique.

Overall, for the Low price of the disk, I am not upset that I added it to my Library, its good enough reference material for the Basics of Taijutsu.

 

[Kreth]

Just watched the first hanbo clip, and I'd summarize it as follows: "Let me throw away a perfectly good hanbo and turn my back on you for a questionable arm lock." Also, is it kosher to use Hatsumi sensei's hanko as part of a video title?

Jeff