DoubleZ711
Yellow Belt
I read a pamphlet from a local martial arts academy and this was listed as a class to take, but when I came home to research it I couldn't find anything. Does anyone know what this is?
What is Phan Ku Ryu Jujitsu?
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DoubleZ711
Yellow Belt
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Does it seem legit or like some knockoff martial art?
JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
Phan ku is not Japanese if that is what you mean by legit.
You would have to ask them where their jujutsu comes from.
You would have to ask them where their jujutsu comes from.
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I don't know that they were "disparaging," and not merely pointing out the difference between what they do and what some people might expect-though, if they're modeling their training on Japanese jujutsu training, saying that they have no "katas" is probably somewhat misleading. As for legitimacy, they say up front that the art is the creation of a Lt. Col. Mark A Miles. This doesn't mean that they're not teaching something useful, and it doesn't mean that they are-the only way to find that out is, as Tez said, to check it out yourself. It in does mean that they're probably not connected to any Japanese jujutsu in any but the most marginal of ways, and probably not connected with any historically "legitimate" martial arts governing body or style.
It also means that they've been pretty honest so far: no secret lineage, no mystery.......
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi,
While I agree that they have been very honest about not being a "legitimate" jujutsu system, I would question a couple of aspects.
There seems to be very little in the way of background, other than mention of "solid jujitsu (sic) principles and sixty-five years of real-life study... for use on the battlefield and later adapted for civilian use". I would ask which Jujutsu it is based on? The generic version based mainly on Judo taught to the military post-WWII, or something else? I would also make the point that the military and civilian needs are very different, the military are expected to go into danger, while the civilian is expected to escape as soon as possible. This does make it hard (not impossible, but hard) to create a true military system, and then just turn it into a civilian art.
This is then followed with a very general (and often heard) statement about being "stand up fighting, and grappling skills as well as jointlocks and throwing techniques... ideal for people working in security related occupations. This Art is not a sport. Our goal is to teach you how to defend yourself, not how to score points in some arena." Not to disparage this claim, but it's becoming more and more common, more real than reality-based systems and MMA...
Add to this a non-Japanese name added to a Japanese term and (misspelled) Japanese Art, and I start to get less than positive vibes. With all that, though, the best idea is exactly what you have been recommended already. Go, talk to them, see what you think... and please let us know! This could be just an awkwardly named system with some really good instructors, or it could be nothing. Only one way to find out!
While I agree that they have been very honest about not being a "legitimate" jujutsu system, I would question a couple of aspects.
There seems to be very little in the way of background, other than mention of "solid jujitsu (sic) principles and sixty-five years of real-life study... for use on the battlefield and later adapted for civilian use". I would ask which Jujutsu it is based on? The generic version based mainly on Judo taught to the military post-WWII, or something else? I would also make the point that the military and civilian needs are very different, the military are expected to go into danger, while the civilian is expected to escape as soon as possible. This does make it hard (not impossible, but hard) to create a true military system, and then just turn it into a civilian art.
This is then followed with a very general (and often heard) statement about being "stand up fighting, and grappling skills as well as jointlocks and throwing techniques... ideal for people working in security related occupations. This Art is not a sport. Our goal is to teach you how to defend yourself, not how to score points in some arena." Not to disparage this claim, but it's becoming more and more common, more real than reality-based systems and MMA...
Add to this a non-Japanese name added to a Japanese term and (misspelled) Japanese Art, and I start to get less than positive vibes. With all that, though, the best idea is exactly what you have been recommended already. Go, talk to them, see what you think... and please let us know! This could be just an awkwardly named system with some really good instructors, or it could be nothing. Only one way to find out!
Dance steps? thats pretty disparaging if you use kata and Bunkai I'm afraid, it perpepuates the myth that kata has no use and is just dancing around.
MMA is a sport not an self defence art.
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I do use kata and bunkai, and kata is a "dance." It's more than that, of course, so it's not "just dancing around," any more than any number of other dance forms are:there are dances for prayer, dances for fun, dances to tell stories and use as mnemonic devices. Kata is a "dance" for training principles and techniques of combat.
Not necessarily disparaging at all....(though I can see how some might view it that way-it's all in the reading, I guess.....)
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The description on the web page seems to be up-front and also slightly hyperbolic. Check it out! It raises my suspicion level slightly but not greatly. It is likely misnamed in some sense but could still be great stuff.
It's not a dance the way we do it lol! it's an Ouch!
We follow Iain Abernethy's thoughts on Bunkai, plain, straight forward and painful to the attacker.
It is all on the way it's read but if you are intending to recruit students a slightly less sneer like blurb is more appropriate. first impressons etc, I wouldn't go to that school because the first impression I got was that it was sounding a tad arrogant, a bit macho. To attract me I'd like something more informative and less in your face, horses for courses though it will attract others of a like mind I suppose and then it'll have done it's job I guess.
Saitama Steve
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Phan Ku very much for giving me money!
What do you use as an infantryman on the battlefield? Rifle and Bayonet. GPMG or Mini-Me (What the U.S. forces call the S.A.W. .223 calibre.)
What do you use as an infantryman on the battlefield? Rifle and Bayonet. GPMG or Mini-Me (What the U.S. forces call the S.A.W. .223 calibre.)
Call in the RAF for air strikes.
Saitama Steve
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There ya go! Precisely. If it gets to H2H, you know that somethings gone very wrong with the small unit tactics that your squad leader knows.
OK everybody... I joined this forum just to answer this thread. I study at the PhanKu Ryu Dojo in Aransas (the one on the website). It is Japanese jujitsu, Col. Miles developed his own "style" when fighting in WWII (i believe), but was originally taught by a "samurai" family (as close as u can get these days) while living in Japan. His father also studied traditional jujitsu. We aren't trying to offend when we say we don't do kata, we just want to be straight forward with our style of learning. All jujitsu schools are this way, guys. As for the Chinese/Japanese name, i'm not really sure... just a funny name i guess... Anyhoo, this is a credible style. Sensei Mike is one HARDCORE mofo. Look up the review of our school on **************
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Cool, thanks for joining us. I'm still a little unsure of a couple of things, though...
To begin with, where exactly does your jujitsu (sic) come from? You mention that it is Japanese, and was developed after Col. Miles was taught by a "samurai" family, but I don't see any names for the system studied or the family who taught it. Oh, and having the claim "he was taught by a "samurai" family when living in Japan" often has the reaction of disbelief (at best). This is not to say it couldn't happen, just that it would be completely out of character for a Japanese tradition as strong as a samurai martial tradition to be taught to a member of what was an occupying force. Gaijin and all that (iteki, if we want to get a little less polite).
Where does the name (Phan Ku) come from? As pointed out, it doesn't have a very Japanese ring to it, I would have expected a more Japanese name for a "Japanese jujitsu (sic)", or even for Col. Miles to possibly name it after himself (Miles Jujutsu, perhaps). The use of the term Ryu is obviously Japanese, but Phan is just as obviously not. Ku could go either way, really.
As for not doing kata, and that being the way all jujutsu schools are, well we may just be using different terminology there. If you are refering to kata as taught in karate systems, then you are fundamentally correct (although not quite totally). There is not a large number of systems that use long strings of combinations and techniques in a memorized pattern as a training tool. But that is how a number of schools teach their weapon systems, and they often use a much shorter form (often paired) to teach the jujutsu portion of their syllabus. And these are refered to as kata. So if you teach by way of memorised/repeated patterns, or drills, whether solo or with a partner, and it is a Japanese art, then you are training in kata. Just so you know.
It is also stated on the website that it is a military system which has been adapted for civilian use. My other post here addresses my concerns over that, but I would add here that if this is a "Japanese jujitsu (sic)", and is also based on "traditional jujitsu" learnt by Col. Miles father (if I read that right), then it isn't really a military system to begin with. If it is a military system to begin with, then it is really based on the training Col. Miles had in the army. So my question is, which is it?
With all of this, though, it doesn't take anything away from the skills you may have learned, or the effectiveness of the techniques you have trained in. I am simply interested in what the vagueries in the website alluded to. Hope you can help.
Oh, and finally, bullshido giving a good review isn't really looked on as a badge of honour amongst many martial artists. It's kind of like a chocolate lovers society telling people about the best diets involving cake. Not the best people to ask. I'm glad you enjoy it, we are just interested in the historical side of things. And there are still a few unanswered questions here, if you don't mind.
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lklawson
Grandmaster
Bullshido is a perfectly fine forum and you can get good information from questions there. But you have to know what questions to ask and understand what the answers mean as well as understand the mind set of the people responding. Bullshido is not like most other Martial Arts related forums. They serve a particular niche and serve it well. Unfortunately they also seem to attract rabid individuals who think their personal purview is greater than it actually is. Many of them exhibit behavior which is generally associated with inexperienced, yet full of argumentative hubris, teenagers.
You just have to use your filters to pick up who to pay attention to and who to ignore.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Jujitsu is the preferred form of the English word jujitsu (a loanword from the Japanese word now rendered as jujutsu in our alphabet), so the "sic" is unnecessary.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jujitsu
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jujutsu&db=luna
ju·jut·su (jōō-jĭt'sōō
n. Variant of jujitsu.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Sorry, not quite. "Jutsu" means "practical art", "jitsu" means "truth". They are very different words, with very different kanji (written characters), and the only acknowledged use of this common mis-spelling is Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (who actually manage to get both characters wrong...).
I will admit that this is quite a pet peeve of mine, I suppose I just get concerned over anyone claiming to teach an art from a long heritage and not even know how to spell the name properly. And this goes to any -jitsu, ninjitsu, jujitsu, jiu-jitsu, aikijujitsu etc. Not just here. If you check any Japanese source, or ask any Japanese person, you will find that the term "jitsu" is just plain incorrect. Sorry.
Oh, and for the record, for Japanese words, I tend to favour the Japanese dictionaries. For example, I use something nice and basic, "The Kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary". And for further reference, see things like Tanemura Sensei's 6th volume in his Samurai Jujutsu series of tapes for Panther Productions. He goes into quite a bit of detail on just this topic, demonstrating the difference between the kanji and how a Japanese person reacts to the mis-pronunciations out there. Good watching!
I will admit that this is quite a pet peeve of mine, I suppose I just get concerned over anyone claiming to teach an art from a long heritage and not even know how to spell the name properly. And this goes to any -jitsu, ninjitsu, jujitsu, jiu-jitsu, aikijujitsu etc. Not just here. If you check any Japanese source, or ask any Japanese person, you will find that the term "jitsu" is just plain incorrect. Sorry.
Oh, and for the record, for Japanese words, I tend to favour the Japanese dictionaries. For example, I use something nice and basic, "The Kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary". And for further reference, see things like Tanemura Sensei's 6th volume in his Samurai Jujutsu series of tapes for Panther Productions. He goes into quite a bit of detail on just this topic, demonstrating the difference between the kanji and how a Japanese person reacts to the mis-pronunciations out there. Good watching!
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