What "God" Do You Worship?

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
1,451
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
I was once at a party where the host asked me not to mention God. I’m not sure why I even showed up at their home. Today I wouldn’t, under those circumstances. At that party, guests used the “F” word, talked about nutrition, politics, hiking, their beach vacation homes, how difficult it is to get good help in Santa Fe, and various other topics, but no one mentioned the word “God”, except as part of a curse word. I suppose they felt comfortable mentioning God in their curses, but that’s another post for another day. This thread is about how I think that every person, whether they think so or not, has a God.

Before we go any further, I suppose I need to say that this culture has become quite simply, an open-air insane asylum. What’s even worse, the inmates are in charge. If you think things are bad, let me assure you that they’re much worse than you imagine, and will get worse than that! It’s not popular to point this out, as the prevailing mentality seems to be that everything is beautiful in its own way. You don’t believe me? Well, how would you describe a culture where the “F” word is perfectly acceptable, yet if you mention God, there’s something terribly wrong with you?

Everyone worships a God. For many people in early 21st Century America, it is the God of money, or materialism. These people realize that in this material world, money is power. As they say, it’s all about the Golden Rule: Those with the gold make the rules. The false God of materialism fools people into thinking that if they can make enough money, or accumulate enough possessions, or get comfortable enough, then they can relax and enjoy life. The catch is, they never get enough. Materialism gets everything backwards, for material comfort can come only when there is a measure of peace inside. The immortal Ascended Spiritual Master Jesus taught that if we seek first the things of Spirit, then everything else we need will be provided. He didn’t promise vacation homes, or a gold Rolex, or designer clothes., but He did assure us that our needs would be met….needs, not material world desires.

Many people worship a particular philosophy. In the US, Canada and Western Europe, the philosophy of multiculturalism has become a civil religion. Its tenets cannot be questioned any more than Catholicism could be questioned when it was in power three hundred years ago. The problem is that multiculturalism says one thing and does another. It claims to respect all cultures and belief systems, yet in fact, it attacks and belittles certain cultures and types of people. It is based upon a deep hatred of Western Civilization, and those who created it. It is, in fact, culturally nothing more than recycled Marxism. It is predicated upon continual racial and ethnic conflict. In today’s culture, you cannot question multiculturalism with risking loss of your job, your family or your home. It has become a religion, as fundamentalist in nature as any other form of fundamentalism. Do you want to see how tolerant they really are, how much diversity they truly celebrate? Disagree with them, and they will try to rip out your throat. Their God is conformity. You’d better conform, or else.

There are some who worship a book, and a particular interpretation of their book. The most visible of these are some of the evangelical Protestants. They literally worship a book. Their God is the Bible. If you watch the TV preachers, you’ll notice how they wave the book back and forth over their heads. They hold it up for all to adore. They don’t so much pay attention to the teachings, as to the bound pages of the book. I find that difficult to understand, as each Protestant sect has its own interpretation of the book, many of them conflicting, and each claiming to be right! Obviously, they can’t all be right with such conflicting beliefs. It is ironic that one of the 10 Commandments of their book says, “You shall have no other God but me”. Their book forbids idolatry, yet they idolize a book, bound pages of paper and ink. This is astounding, isn’t it? What’s even more astounding is the political power they have amassed over us.

Some people call themselves "atheists," claiming not to believe in any God, yet they do. Some believe in the God of scientific, rational materialism. Some believe in the God of democracy, and have turned the US into a missionary organization, intent upon imposing their belief system upon the entire world. How can anyone claim this is not a religion? It obviously is, and a dangerous one, at that-perhaps even more dangerous than the religionof Communism proved to be. Incidentally, I've met very few true atheists-with a few of the notable exceptions being here on the internet. I’ve had many conversations with atheists, and I discovered that most had been painfully abused by religion, or raised by people who were abused by religion. They disbelieve in the God they were taught about, not necessarily the Creator. They tell us that the universe was created by a Big Bang. I have this to say about big bangs. To claim that the beauty and complexity of the universe merely resulted from a big bang is like saying that the Encyclopedia Britannica resulted from an explosion in a print shop.

Some people worship another person as God. This is quite common in the guru system of India. I’ve never been able to understand that. I share so many of the spiritual beliefs of Hinduism. I believe in reincarnation, and I find much inspiration in the ancient Vedic literature, yet I’ve never been able to appreciate worshipping the guru as God. There are just too many cheaters who set themselves up as gurus. It is dangerous to acknowledge divinity in someone else without seeing divinity in yourself. Too many people are running around looking for false Gods to worship. Even with as much beauty as I find in the traditional spirituality of India, I continue to be dismayed by the insistence of gurus that they be worshipped. At the same time, there are certain teachers who are obviously highly advanced souls. I can simply look at a picture of Paramahansa Yogananda, and I see God. His divinity shines through the physical. Paramahansaji always pointed away from himself and toward the Creator. One of my teachers helped a lot of people with the ceremonies he ran, and he always made a point of asking them to thank the Creator, and not him.This is the sign of a true guru.

Many people worship the State as God. They depend upon the God of government to regulate every aspect of their lives, just as surely as 11th Century Christians depended upon the Church to regulate their lives. Many people worship the God of the nation. These people are nationalists. They are not patriots, they are nationalists. There is a huge difference between the two. Nationalists are aggressive and belligerent. They attack other nations, for they see others as less than themselves. They offer up their sons to be sacrificed upon the altar of militarism, another false God.

Everyone worships a God. The question is not whether you believe in a God or not.

The question is, what "God" do you worship?
 

kamishinkan

Green Belt
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
159
Reaction score
7
Location
South Carolina
I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Elohim through His Son and Messiah, Yeshua (Jesus).

Cool thread by the way. :ultracool
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
452
Location
Winnipeg MB
I'm not gonna bite that bullet.

Define God as whatever you believe in and you can't be an atheist? I'm gonna disagree right there. When people say "God" they mean something fairly specific, not whatever you believe in. And I also don't bite that everyone worships something, believe maybe, worship no.
 
OP
elder999

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
1,451
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
Andrew Green said:
I'm not gonna bite that bullet.

Define God as whatever you believe in and you can't be an atheist? I'm gonna disagree right there. When people say "God" they mean something fairly specific, not whatever you believe in. And I also don't bite that everyone worships something, believe maybe, worship no.

I suppose, then, that there are no atheists that worship money?

Or their wives? Or sex?Drugs? Rock musicians?

From the excellent, Merriam-Webster Online English Technical Manual(that's engineer-speak for "dictionary-and do take note of #4):

Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>
 

michaeledward

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
82
I think it is terribly arrogant of you to presume what the beliefs of others are, or must be, and to ascribe them to motives you hold.
 
OP
elder999

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
1,451
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
michaeledward said:
I think it is terribly arrogant of you to presume what the beliefs of others are, or must be, and to ascribe them to motives you hold.

Yeah, I'll cop to being arrogant, and then some. Comes with the territory.....

It's not presumptuous at all to make observations, though, especially as I prefaced them with "some," or "many."

Surely, you know some people who worship money.Many people do.......
 

michaeledward

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
82
elder999 said:
It's not presumptuous at all to make observations, though, especially as I prefaced them with "some," or "many."

Some ?

Many ?

elder999 said:
This thread is about how I think that every person, whether they think so or not, has a God.

elder999 said:
Everyone worships a God.

elder999 said:
Everyone worships a God. The question is not whether you believe in a God or not.
 

SFC JeffJ

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
9,141
Reaction score
44
elder999 said:
Yeah, I'll cop to being arrogant, and then some. Comes with the territory.....

And what territory would that be?

Oh, and if you'd call anything I do worshiping, it would have to be my beautiful and wonderful wife.

Jeff
 

Kane

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Messages
589
Reaction score
17
As a deist/pantheist, worshipping an invisible entity or being who we can never know is considered superstition. However it is generally believed in some free-thinking systems that using Reason (rather than Faith) is a metaphoric way of worshipping God. As Thomas Paine wrote in his writings, "My mind is my church."

But no there is no bowing down and chanting or animal sacrifices. Prayer is also generally rejected as superstition (Since most deist and pantheists believe in an impersonal God).
 

michaeledward

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
82
elder999 said:
Well, let's re-emphasize what you quoted, Michael:

THis thread is about how I think that every person, whether they think so or not, has a "God."

Yes, I saw that.

How are you going to re-emphasize the final two quotes, from the conclusions of your argument?

elder999 said:
Everyone worships a God.

Everyone worships a God. The question is not whether you believe in a God or not.
 

Korppi76

Green Belt
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
115
Reaction score
3
Location
Kerava Finland
Originally Posted by elder999
Everyone worships a God. The question is not whether you believe in a God or not.
Hmm what about those who havent even thought this worshipping thing.
 

Drac

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
143
Location
Ohio
Is there more than one?????
 

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
*I* am my only god.

If anyone were to fill a "god" role for me, it would be me. And as is apparent, I am not a god, my belief is therefore that I have no god.

Respects!
 

qizmoduis

Purple Belt
Joined
May 22, 2002
Messages
315
Reaction score
7
Location
Schwenksville, PA
elder999 said:
Everyone worships a God.

Incorrect, arrogant and condescending. I am an atheist, and regardless of your prejudicial assumptions about me, I do not worship anything. Please don't twist words to suit your argument.

I've heard this particular claim from religious people before. What it really amounts to is nothing more than projection. The theist cannot comprehend that there are folks out there that simply do not have the god-belief thought patterns. They seek to rationalize this fact by twisting and redefining the meanings of words so they can feel better about themselves by fitting everyone into into something like their mold, with their's being the most perfect.

The rich guy worships money!
The scientist worships science!
The mathemetician worships numbers!
The atheist worships <insert demeaning assumption here>

Everyone worships a god, but mine is the best!

Unfortunately for them, life simply doesn't work that way.
 

Flatlander

Grandmaster
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
6,785
Reaction score
70
Location
The Canuckistan Plains
IMO, the words 'worship' and 'god' are altogether far to strong to use for some people. I understand the metaphor of 'worshipping the god of money', but in my mind it works only as a metaphor; as a statement of fact we run into definition problems.

For example, the 'thing' of most value in my life is money. It is the item with which I can provide for the wants and needs of myself and my family. Therefore, a great quantity of my time is committed to the acquisition, maintenance of, and use of money. Can this be called worship? I don't think so - it's pragmatism. The local economy operates using money, so it's the thing to have. However, I don't worship or deify it. In fact, I give it away sometimes. I take risks with it with respect to investing and gambling. Sometimes, I spend more of it than I have to. I wouldn't do these things if it were something I worshipped or had deified, would I?

Material possessions are a source of comfort for me - I enjoy looking good in nice clothes, watching large televisions, driving in nice cars, etc. However, I don't spend any time devoted to these things. I enjoy, but do not worship. Will I work a little harder to acquire these things? Sure - it's a trade off. However, does this mean I suffer to acquire them (perhaps a way of demonstrating that I 'worship' material possessions)? No. I enjoy my work a great deal. I find it quite satisfying. So, I do more of something that I enjoy, and gain more money, with which to buy stuff I want and like. Again, I see no 'false gods' there.

I have no such attachment to anything that could be construed as a 'god' which I am 'worshipping'. I'm pretty sure that I could refute any argument to the contrary, given the subjectivity of the proposition.
 

bushidomartialarts

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
2,668
Reaction score
47
Location
Hillsboro, Oregon
i find it unfortunate and limiting that the words 'god' and 'worship' are so emotionally loaded that they appear to prevent people from having what could be an interesting conversation.

elder seems to be asking about our driving motivations, using the vocabulary he knows and uses. as a martial artist, i could have posted "what concepts are you willing to die for?" and nobody would have gotten their knickers all atwist.

now, i have very little use for the organized christian church in america. but let's not turn into what we despise by getting all reactionary when somebody offends our concept of what is 'right' thought.

to answer elder's question, i worship the god of family. blood kin and friends who are family are my highest priority. i think it's what makes my school successful: it feels like family and i work hard to nurture and protect my people.
 

michaeledward

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
82
bushidomartialarts said:
elder seems to be asking about our driving motivations, using the vocabulary he knows and uses. as a martial artist, i could have posted "what concepts are you willing to die for?" and nobody would have gotten their knickers all atwist

I will prefer to comment on the actual question he asks, rather than trying to interpret what he really means. This medium is especially susceptible to misinterpretation, without my adding my own opinions and prejudices to questions asked.

bushidomartialarts said:
now, i have very little use for the organized christian church in america. but let's not turn into what we despise by getting all reactionary when somebody offends our concept of what is 'right' thought.

That you assume that I, or others "despise" anything, would seem to be without merit. I have made no claims to what I value or despise. I have only challenged the premise; which I find faulty.

That premise can only be supported by imposing a subjective belief on others. The act of imposing a belief on others is repugnant to me. Oddly, this is a lesson I had learned from the Bible.

"Render unto Ceasar, that which is Ceasar's."

"When you pray, go into your closet, and let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing."

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
I posit, further, that someone who posts a question with an anectdote about not being able to speak the word 'God' at a party, may not have absorbed the meaning of those lessons in the same way in which I have.
 
OP
elder999

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
1,451
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
Well, it seems that my rather loaded use of the words "God," and "worship," have had quite an effect.

Good.

Sorry if I offended any atheists. It seems as though I have to keep reminding people to read what I've written, though, rather than take it personally.....:

Some people call themselves "atheists," claiming not to believe in any God, yet they do. Some believe in the God of scientific, rational materialism. Some believe in the God of democracy, and have turned the US into a missionary organization, intent upon imposing their belief system upon the entire world. How can anyone claim this is not a religion? It obviously is, and a dangerous one, at that-perhaps even more dangerous than the religionof Communism proved to be. Incidentally, I've met very few true atheists-with a few of the notable exceptions being here on the internet. I&#8217;ve had many conversations with atheists, and I discovered that most had been painfully abused by religion, or raised by people who were abused by religion. They disbelieve in the God they were taught about, not necessarily the Creator.

And one has to wonder which part offended those of you who choose to believe in no god, that I've observed that some of you-though, no one here, at least, not yet-"worship" rational materialism, or that most of the atheists I've met have been abused by religion in one way or another?
As for this:

Everyone worships a god, but mine is the best!

Well, I didn't say that-and, no matter how imperious, haughty or excessively proud I am, I never would.
 

bushidomartialarts

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
2,668
Reaction score
47
Location
Hillsboro, Oregon
interesting idea, even if the thread disintegrated some.

out of curiousity, was your intent to stir up a hornet's nest just cos sometimes it's fun to watch them buzz? god and religion and worship are so charged on both sides of the debate.

for my money, a discussion of our core values would have been interesting (thanks, by the way, to posters who did). watching people try to flame you for the conversation you tried to start is not.

sad that god seems a curse word these days. if you're an athiest/agnostic the religious whackos get all swole up when you say you don't believe in their god. if you're religious, the athiest/agnostic whackos get defensive faster than you can say 'amen'.
 
Top