What do like more forms or fighting?

[SolidTiger]

I like to do forms and and fight, but I like fighting more it's more interactive and you learn how to escape attacks. I like forms because the more you do a form the better your attacks become, and you also learn new attacks moves from forms...

Thank you

SolidTiger

 

[tshadowchaser]

For me each has it's place in my training. Doing forms I have totaly lost allperspective of the world around me. The attackers where there in front ,beside , and behind me. I could feel and see them. Only at the very end of the form durring meditation did I come back to reality. OK, it's only gone to that extream a couple of times but what an experence.
Fighting is a strange world in itslef. Light sparring teaches give and take, distance, timeing, and many other things. It gives me a chance to work certian techniques continualy. Multipal opponet sparring teaches other things. Fighting, WELL thts a whole other story. THe place I go when fighting , the mental awareness of what is ghoing on is different. I have been told that I can be felt at a distance and that I do things on a higher level. Can't really say I can't see myslf or feel what I give off.
Hell I love both EXCEPT doing Sanchin in front of my instructor. That will always feel unconfortable , I know how hard he will be hitting me.

Shadow
:asian:

 

[SolidTiger]

yes right on the button, when your doing a form you must
feel your attacks as if you are in a real fight. your movements
can't be like kick here punch here. You have to feel your punches
and kicks, but when you fight you see how good you really are.

Thank you

SolidTiger

 

[MTisGreat]

i believe MA builds a foundation and increases ur chances of winning a fight. more fights will build ur focus and reflexes and experiece

 

[tshadowchaser]

The last two post have mentioned Fight experence. Do you really mean fights (no hold or weapon barred, winner walks away loser gose to hospital at best), or do you mean sparring?

 

[MTisGreat]

sparrring builds experience but not as much as street fights. sparring isnt wat im talking about thought. im talking street and nhb fights

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Because of the nature of each, your results will vary.

If you do alot of forms, you'll get better at forms, but not neccisarily learn to fight.

If you spar alot, you'll get better at sparin, but again not nec. fighting.

The only way to get good at fighting, is to fight. When you spar, you hold back, you dont go for the kill, you wear safety gear. When you fight, its flesh on flesh, and someone isn't getting up again.

The Samurai knew a fight had only 3 outcomes.
1- I win. That means I'm alive, and you are not.
2- Tie. We are both dead.
3- I lose. I'm dead.

This was based on the idea that there were only 3 skill levels.
1- Not as good as I
2- As good as I
3- Better than I.

With the odds 66% against you from the start I personally hope to avoid fights.

You need to know how to integrate the forms and the sparing into you, so that the concepts are internalized, and you can then achieve 'action without thought' in a real fight.

(hopefully that made sence...was a long weekend heh.)
:asian:

 

[karatekid1975]

I'm the type of person who loves forms. I practiced them more than anything. I sparred maybe once or twice (besides test time) in a year and a half of TSD. When I got attacked ( a green belt in TSD at the time), I didn't spar more than once, but I walked away, and he didn't.

Now that I do TKD, I spar more, but I still like forms better. I'm the type of person who "digs" into the forms. I don't just learn the "motions" like some people. I wanna know what each move is for, and the "how's and why's" of each move. Maybe that's what helped me when I got attacked, but then again, it could have been the step sparring or the self defense part. I still don't know.

 

[chufeng]

Excuse me for appearing stupid...

I like forms...

Nowhere in my experience has anyone been more formidible than my "imaginary" foe...

My worst nightmare of a sparring partner has been tame compared to my "imaginary" sparring partner that faces EVERY day when I do forms practice...

Maybe I just haven't seen the WORST nightmare of a foe in training yet...but, I believe, WE each have our own worst enemy...and it is us.. so, WE must defeat ourselves in order to master anything...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Please don't take my comments as knocking forms. I wasn't intending it that way.

Forms done right will help, and both of you seem to have the right ideas.

I'm the type of person who "digs" into the forms. I don't just learn the "motions" like some people. I wanna know what each move is for, and the "how's and why's" of each move.

and

WE each have our own worst enemy...and it is us.. so, WE must defeat ourselves in order to master anything...

Exactly. 95% of the folks I've met in the last few years just do the 'dance', but can't see within. 1 person recently realized that -all- of the basics were located in the form they were struggling to do. I might add that they had no problem with the individual techs, but the form was kicking their ***. The light went on and they 'saw'. Now, its coming together nicely.

If you just go thru the motions, in 10 years you'll be a parrot. If you analyze, and understand, and internalize and expand, then you'll be a martial artist.
:asian:

 

[ECYili]

To me, forms are fighting, that's what they were designed for. Most people don't put in the time to do the right trainning to be able to use the techniques in a fight.
You have to train the forms the right way. Then you have to train the applications the right way over and over again until it's engrained.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by ECYili

To me, forms are fighting, that's what they were designed for. Most people don't put in the time to do the right trainning to be able to use the techniques in a fight.
You have to train the forms the right way. Then you have to train the applications the right way over and over again until it's engrained.

This is true.
My teacher is always telling us "don't make stupid sweat........understand what you are doing" (meaning if you don't know what the heck it is you are doing then you are just wasting your time)

I can't understand why most people don't pay attention to the old saying "there is no wasted motion in Karate" (other arts too).
Even little things such as slight movements have meaning...........stuff that looks like nothing is often critical in technique.
It seems people are too eager to get out there and "kick ***" than to learn the proper way.

 

[Cruentus]

The only way to get good at fighting, is to fight. When you spar, you hold back, you dont go for the kill, you wear safety gear. When you fight, its flesh on flesh, and someone isn't getting up again.

This is so true Kaith; not many people really understand this.

It's important to train for a "fight" or "combat" the best way one knows how, understanding that there really is no substitute for real combat. "How" to train for this will depend on the art your studying. Whether you like forms, partner drills, sparring, or whatever, keeping the combat application in mind while not having the false confidence that your "training" will somehow substitute for "reality" is the best thing that anyone can do to prepare for that reality.

Forms or Sparring?? I personally prefer partner work and sparring.

 

[Cruentus]

sparrring builds experience but not as much as street fights. sparring isnt wat im talking about thought. im talking street and nhb fights

Sorry MTisGreat...Don't think I'm trying to pick apart what you're saying, I just want to reinerate a point.

"No Holds Barred" fighting that is in a ring or an octagon cage, and has rules (however limited those rules are) is competition, not combat. I think that NHB fighting is tough as hell, and is a good thing for people to use as a training tool, but I feel that is as far as it goes.

Just my opinion! :soapbox:

 

[Cthulhu]

I've found that with my personal training, I would feel my training to be horribly deficient if I lacked either forms or fighting.

I look at it like this: forms, drills, and techniques are like the theory behind the system. It's the tools used to solve theoretical problems, like mathematics is to science. Fighting, even sparring, is application; using said tools to solve actual problems, like experiments in science.

It is my (personal) belief that, just as science needs math and experiment working to solve a problem, martial arts need forms and sparring/fighting for the same goal.

Cthulhu

 

[SolidTiger]

I think that when you practice alone it's better to do a form
then just drill yourself with kicks and punches. It is the closest
to really fighting, because you are using your imagination. The
fighting experiance is more then word can explain, because the
fighting knowledge that is gained like how to move away and
under or around kicks and punches. So I think sparing does teaches you skills that forms do not.

Thank You

SolidTiger

 

[ECYili]

I think that when you practice alone it's better to do a form then to drill yourself with punches and kicks.

I think this is partly true. Again form work is very important. But to me it's also important to practice your individual techniques. By strengthing those, your foundation will be strong and the techniques will keep getting stronger and faster. With out strong techniques the applications of the form you use in fighting or drills won't matter.
All in all it's just another piece of the puzzle needed to make the whole thing work.

 

[SolidTiger]

Yes I agree that you should practice all of your kicks and punches, but what I'm trying to say is that. Forms prepare you
for sparing with the movements of attacks and blocks, but your
only using your imagination. Your thinking this person is over
here, this person is attacking like this so I need to use this block
right here. You know things like that could help you decide your
next attack when fighting

Thank You

SolidTiger

 

[ECYili]

I totally agree, nce post:cheers:

 

[SolidTiger]

Thank you for agreeing ECYili, really everything you do in class
builds up your skill.

Thank you

SolidTiger